.030 or .035

[mingoglia]

I first decided that I wanted to learn to weld about a year and a half ago. I'm into 4 wheeling and was spending a lot of money having others repair things I broke on the weekend, making bumpers, a cage, etc. I had always wanted to learn so it was a perfect excuse.

I spoke to a friend of mine that owns a welding company in Montana and he said to start off with stick. He said if you can weld good with stick (and even better Oxy Ace as well) then other welding processes will be learned much more quickly. He said that learning Oxy Ace would allow me to better learn and understand the weld pool. Anyway, I went to the local community college and took classes in each (I completed the classes a few months back).

That leads me to last week. I bought a new Millermatic 210 as my first MIG. I probably should have taken a class in MIG as well but I figured I became pretty darn proficient with the other two processes that perhaps I can wing it with a book. Besides, my wife put an end to future classes as "you're not spending enough time with the kids"...anyway, it is what it is.

Anyway, I bought my welder last Friday and the following day I ripped a control arm mount from my front axle of my Jeep so now I'm welding frantically a few nights a week running stringers trying to get ready to cut off the remains of the old bracket in preparation for the new bracket. Technically it's not ideal as a first project to weld something that prevents my axle from flying off but hopefully with my experience with other welding processes, a couple of MIG books, and perhaps some input here I can make it work.

So to my question: I originally had purchased .035 wire (a 33# spool). Before opening it I talked myself out of it, returned it, then got .030 as that's what a buddy was using with his 251. The guy at the welding shop said that my welder will probably "like" .035 better on the first spool of wire but may "prefer" .030 on the next spool. I really don't know what that means.

What are your thoughts? With the current project at hand I'm trying to weld (all my projects I forsee in the near future are mild steel with c25 as the gas). My bracket I have to weld on is 3/16th and being welded to an axle tube (I haven't determined the wall thickness of this axle tube yet). Would you use .030 for this? Or .035?

I'm currently questioning my penetration (no wife jokes please ) on my test stringers. My bead shape isn't exactly what I think it should be. I may post some pics... but what are your thoughts on the .030 vs. .035?

Mike

[yorkiepap]

Wire size...

Hey Mike,
IMHO, you would have much better results using the .035. As far as gas, I have both C25 & C10. For deeper penetration, C10....for flatter puddle, C25. The best approach is to do some serious practice on similar metal till you get the "feel" of the wire feed/heat parameters that will give you optimum results. Books provide valuable information regarding application and technique, but practice makes you competent that you are getting solid and satisfactory welds. Just like anything else....more you practice...better you get. Good luck.....Denny

[Steve]

For giggles, kick the wire feed to max, then adjust the heat up to melt all that wire and run a few 12 inch beads on some thick steel. This will get you used to the heat and sparks and what not. Then follow the guide for wire speed and heat and adjust either accordingly. Happy burning.

[mingoglia]

I have to head to the welding shop I bought the MM from tomorrow as my torch is on the blink. When I got it on Friday and set it up the torch would just keep feeding wire (and gas) like I was holding the switch. A couple of smacks with an open hand and it was fine. On occasion it happens again and I have to smack it. Last night it kept feeding, curled up, and arched after I lifted my hood (didn't realize it started running) so I guess it's time to get it replaced/looked at. I suppose the switch is bad in it.

Anyway, while I'm there I'll pick up some .035. Any other pros/cons?

Mike

[Bmxin^Bjorn]

The miler guns are bad for that , i replaced all my miller guns with tregaskiss toughguns because of that problem. If i were you i'd go with the 035 vs. the 030 because its more versitle. The welder you have is a great machine and can tackle pretty much anything you throw at it if you have a 035 wire in it(er70s-6 wire i prefer), i have the MM 35 and it is basicly the eqivilant of the 210 and i'm running a 035 in it and it works great
Hey anyone know what the gas mixture Praxair's "Stargon C-320" is? i have that at work and it works great but not shure what mix it is.

[jamlit]

Hey anyone know what the gas mixture Praxair's "Stargon C-320" is? i have that at work and it works great but not shure what mix it is.[/QUOTE]

The stargon is basically the same as the BOC Argoshield. Argon, CO2, O2 mix. here is a link to the praxair sire on the stargon products.

http://www.praxair.com/praxair.nsf/7a1106cc7ce1c54e85256a9c005accd7/eb1882a4b28bd23f85256e750065759a?OpenDocument

[Sundown]

I think that .030 Pinnacle, Radnor, Hobart HB-28, or Lincoln L-56 (kinda in that order) run the best in my MM210 and in fact my roll of .035 HB-28 is shink wraped in the cabinet in case I might ever need it. I have nothing aginst .035 but just feel that .030 runs better in that machine.

[mingoglia]

I think that .030 Pinnacle, Radnor, Hobart HB-28, or Lincoln L-56 (kinda in that order) run the best in my MM210 and in fact my roll of .035 HB-28 is shink wraped in the cabinet in case I might ever need it. I have nothing aginst .035 but just feel that .030 runs better in that machine.

Interesting. Okay, I suppose I'll stick with the .030 (It's Pinnacle). Do you think even for 3/16" or higher? Can I run the .030 with the larger materials? When would it be prudent to use a larger wire? 3/8"?

Thanks for your help guys.

Mike

[Bmxin^Bjorn]

well.. i use the 030 in my mm 135 and can go to about 1/4 steel with a good weld. Once i got the 251 tho i pretty much use the 035 for down to 3/16 & 1/4. I find the 035 is more versitle because you dont have to change wires when you want to do heavy steel. Your machine can easily handle 1/2 steel with a 035 wire, i dont know how thick your planning to weld but if your going to stay 1/4 and under i would use the 030, however if your going to be jumping all over the place in steel thickness you may as well use 035. Hope this helps

[mingoglia]

well.. i use the 030 in my mm 135 and can go to about 1/4 steel with a good weld. Once i got the 251 tho i pretty much use the 035 for down to 3/16 & 1/4. I find the 035 is more versitle because you dont have to change wires when you want to do heavy steel. Your machine can easily handle 1/2 steel with a 035 wire, i dont know how thick your planning to weld but if your going to stay 1/4 and under i would use the 030, however if your going to be jumping all over the place in steel thickness you may as well use 035. Hope this helps

For the most part most things I'll be welding will be 3/16" like this bracket I need to weld on. This welder is primarily to fix the junk I brake off the Jeep wheeling. Much of this is 3/16". In addition I'll use it for my cage which is about the thinnest stuff I'll be welding. I'll be fabing up a bumper soon which may be 3/16" as well.

For the immediate project I'm doing this weekend it's 3/16". Since this is an axle bracket I'm most concerned about getting a good weld on this project. This of course being this weld could mean the difference between having my axle rip off going down the road. Would you recommend getting a small spool of .035 for this project to "make sure"... or just burn metal for a few hours the next couple of nights in preperation for the real project on Saturday?

Mike

[Bmxin^Bjorn]

i have a jeep as well and i use 035 in the mm250 for working on the jeep and i use the tig ,, but for the most part the 035 works great for all jeep work. I did use 023 and the little welder tho when i replaced some rust spots

[Sundown]

I would use .030 on 3/16", for 1/4" I might be tempted to jump to .035, best is to do some testing and see which one you like at different thickness's. I am using Pinnacle .030 and I guess I will need to try some of their .035 to see how it runs ... it's just that it's hard to get from here.

[Danny]

For 16 ga - 1/4" and the ocassional jump up to 3/8", on the MM 210, an .030 wire works the best. Understand too, for the same output power level ( voltage and amperage), the .030 wire has a higher current density then the .035. What this means is the .030 at the same output power level has the potential to produce a deeper penetrating weld. The only real advantage an .035 wire would provide on a unit this size, would be in a production environment. The .035 has a higher deposition rate then the .030, which means the .035 will produce a weld bead quicker. For the hobbyist level weldor, I look upon this as a disadvantage, due to it giving you less time to read the weld puddle.

I'm assuming on this 3/16" you are trying to use the door chart setting. In my opinion, for a horizontal or flat T joint or lap, the door chart setting is to cold. Jump up to the 1/4" door chart setting ( voltage tap #4) for your starting point on these joints.

[mingoglia]

I'm assuming on this 3/16" you are trying to use the door chart setting. In my opinion, for a horizontal or flat T joint or lap, the door chart setting is to cold. Jump up to the 1/4" door chart setting ( voltage tap #4) for your starting point on these joints.

That brings up my next question (thank you). This will be a bracket on my axle. This bracket goes on the backside and extends to the bottom of the axle tube. Because of this my weld will start in a vertical down and finish with me lying on my back in a overhead horizontal. Any suggestions that might help me with votlage/wire speed/body position/technique?

Thanks!

Mike

[Danny]

That brings up my next question (thank you). This will be a bracket on my axle. This bracket goes on the backside and extends to the bottom of the axle tube. Because of this my weld will start in a vertical down and finish with me lying on my back in a overhead horizontal. Any suggestions that might help me with votlage/wire speed/body position/technique?

Thanks!

Mike

If possible, my first choice would be to tack the bracket into position. Then remover the axle from the vehicle, so that I could place the joint in a better position to weld it out.