Help Required for Vertical Uphill Stick Welding

[Sberry]

I got a story about this. Way back in my sprout days I went on a plant job and they had decided to use their people to test the welders. It used to be open butt vert and oh and they wanted to cheapen the test so they went to a T on a couple plates and back bend break it in a press. 3 passes. Guy named Ted giving it, not that I was any better but Ted was an older knob used to chain smoke Salems. He fancied himself a real welder but I ran one of the plates like it was sposed to be, maybe the oh but the other one I fuss with and find one with a bevel and when he left for a bit I whack a little on the grinder and tip the gap open.
when he wasnt looking I super melted the root in with lo hy, melted dam near thru it and ran a second cover over. It wasnt real pretty and he made some comment and said the proof would come when he broke it. I can still see tyhe sweat and the worked up red face. Had to redo the jig and was still working on it when I left, he said something to my boss later about the oh was good but the vert was sketchy, I dont remember exact except still have this pic in my mind of the smoke coming thru his ears while working the press. It flattened right out. m My buf had followed me and said he threw it on the floor a couple times.
I actually ran in to him 10 yrs later when I was running a bar while the owners vacation. I dont think he recognized me and I didnt say anything. I didnt want him blowing a gasket which I heard he did not too long after. Heard he took the wife to dinner at some place he was tapping the barmaid.

[Sberry]

They are things of beauty,. This is what really makes a welder. Its something really cant be faked. After a while getting rid of the undercut becomes rather automatic.

[Don52]

I have done enough uphill welds that I find that they are getting easier.

18. Vertical uphill welds are getting easier.


-Don

[Don52]

I mocked up the weld to develop and verify the welding parameters. I used a whip and pause using 1/8” 6011 rod, followed by a small “U” shaped weave using a 5/32” 7018 rod for the 2^nd pass.

13. Bevel on top plate


14. Groove weld for 1^st pass


15. Fillet weld for 2nd pass


In the following picture you can see that there is pretty good penetration on the weld. There is a little undercut on the top of the weld.

16. Etch of weld


I directed the arc to favor the upper plate and hesitated a little on the top and eliminated the undercut.

17. Got rid of top undercut

[Don52]

Actually it need only 1 at that thickness.

Thanks for the time that you spent replying to my post. I appreciate it.

On Sunday I made a trip to Mark’s house to look at the boat hoist. I am sure that the pylons will be structural, but Pylon #2 is badly pitted. Mark suspects that the pipes used for the pylons weren’t new, when they were installed 30 years ago.

8. Pylon 1 is in good shape


9. Pylon 2 is in worst shape


10. Another view of pylon 2


It turns out that the required welds are a little different than what I was practicing. I suggested grinding the entire end of the ½” vertical plate, so that I could put a 1/2" fillet weld on the end. It will probably take me two passes to fill up the end of the plate. Mark wants me to put a 2^nd fillet weld on the back side, but I think that this would be overkill.

11. Grind on end of 0.5 inch vertical plate


There was a 3/32” gap between the top plate and the pylon. I suggested adding a 45° bevel on the ID of the top plate. The strategy for attaching the top plate to the OD of the pylon would be to have a groove weld covered by a 2^nd pass fillet weld.

12. Top plate gap is .095 inch

[Sberry]

Actually it need only 1 at that thickness.

[KenO]

For the metal thickness, first pass 6010 with 1/8 is good, but I would drop down to 3/32 for the 7018.

[Sberry]

This is plate that has heavy scale and been thru a fire, old 7018 rod. No cleaning. 6010 is just a bit easier in that respect but 18 burns thru it too and does maybe even better job in the sense that there is so much flux it carries off the crud better vs mixing it up in the weld pool.

[walker]

Well, I think this is being way overthought. A single pass with either 6010 or 7018 will provide enough strength to topple the piers when the floating docks get hung up on it, a big motor boat was above it, and the tide goes out. So how much stronger does it need to be. I am partial to 6010 because I can guarantee you won’t be able to get the rusty pipe piers clean enough for a really good 7018 weld.

[Sberry]

This is 2 plates clamped to the bench and reach under,,, overhead, 1/4 square butt, no bevel.

[Sberry]

While the rod has some dig to really penetrate so to speak there should be a gap. But here was a T someone was fooling with, almost melt thru and stack it right back up. That is a T in 1/4 as I recall.

[MAC702]

Are you suggesting the hundreds of thousands of miles of pipeline have a lack of penetration in the root pass?

"lack" may have been the wrong word, but I read it as "more difficult root penetration," done by guys who knew how to do it, obviously.

[Sberry]

At the nuke lots of brackets from 1/4 to 1/2 material and 3/16 weld.

[Sberry]

Some of this babble is for others. We get a few design, how strong questions. When I start I was a chronic over builder, back in the day everything was heavier and lots built from structural steel. I was the designer.
. Today I copy. When I upgrade or fix failure especially equipment from book learned engineers mostly up 25%, 1 size etc. Got a bud I can't hire, throws a fix if it's not 10x etc. This cost me some steel and weight in early years
today my guess and experience can come close and if it matters come in about a guage heavier than the cad guys.

[walker]

I get it. It is much easier to run 6010 downhill instead of uphill. I guess that the strategy would be to add enough weld to get around the lack of root penetration inherent in downhill welding of metal that is thicker than 3/16"?

-Don

Are you suggesting the hundreds of thousands of milesof pipeline have a lack of penetration in the root pass?