Help Required for Vertical Uphill Stick Welding

[ryanjones2150]

If I’m running up, I prefer 3/32 7018. You’ll be able to get just as good a bite and it stacks metal a lot easier.

And I agree, there ain’t a dadgum thing wrong with the welds on your test coupons. Just don’t fall in the water.

[Sberry]

A good share of nukes were built with 3/32. I did a repair on a forklift a while back from customer 120V and a Maxstar. Was so nice not to hear an engine running and they did actually have 240V but,, 2 or 3 hrs of fab, a few minutes of welding and about 6 inches of it has to run a second pass on a vert. Having a bigger machine or actually a bigger electrode would have saved less than 5 minutes, I had to run maybe 3 or 4 extra rods and the job was right in the face so pretty didnt hurt.
Something else I elude to is that while I am a career welder I really dont weld much anymore and it does take a bit to stay in shape. It really takes me a week or 10 days of running a few rods a day to come back to where I am really running the rod vs kind of hanging on. The nature of our work makes most of it irrelevent as it all looks great to others but I would struggle with a higher level if required.
I been there when testing, I made it thru, by tests I wouldnt have looked that great starting but once I come up to speed could make the quality shoot up. My fave is really overhead fillet but consistent verts are really the hardest.
Welding is so vast and experience varies but I find a tendency for lots to think cause that scratched an arc they know everything about it. It comes up on occasion,,, I was running a crane and if I talk to some rig guys they figure everyone but them is a hobby type, they can always find something, didnt chip all the slag off etc, very rarely they actually look. I did a hi pressure water line tie in a while back while the crew waited and after it was done the backhoe guy says,,,, we dont even have to test this do we? ha. I said no, they we put in another 1000 ft. I was more a daily driver at the time and it makes quite a bit of difference.
The stuff we do is passable but can really go a long time between critical work. Most days I do some but stitches on the bench with a feeder is different than getting in some terrible spot on some fussy weld. When I dont do regular get a kind of vertigo type thing makes it a challence when you have head at odd angles, makes it a bit worse if not prepped right, even some dirt on a lense makes a difference a guy wouldnt notice on a bench putting a big ole smoker down.

[Sberry]

Skip the practice, time to get it done. No one gonna fire you for this.

[Sberry]

I read this a little again. If I was doing this would do the vert in 1 pass 1/8 7018 or even 3/32 depending on power source. Doing general fab and repair it's really a rare day I use 2passes.
. Looks like the real load is in the top pass, the vert is slimy to attach the flange. 3/16 weld plenty sufficient, does not need to be as strong as it can be but as strong as it needs to be.

[walker]

I get it. It is much easier to run 6010 downhill instead of uphill. I guess that the strategy would be to add enough weld to get around the lack of root penetration inherent in downhill welding of metal that is thicker than 3/16"?

-Don

Are you suggesting the hundreds of thousands of milesof pipeline have a lack of penetration in the root pass?

[Sberry]

Some of this babble is for others. We get a few design, how strong questions. When I start I was a chronic over builder, back in the day everything was heavier and lots built from structural steel. I was the designer.
. Today I copy. When I upgrade or fix failure especially equipment from book learned engineers mostly up 25%, 1 size etc. Got a bud I can't hire, throws a fix if it's not 10x etc. This cost me some steel and weight in early years
today my guess and experience can come close and if it matters come in about a guage heavier than the cad guys.

[Sberry]

At the nuke lots of brackets from 1/4 to 1/2 material and 3/16 weld.

[MAC702]

Are you suggesting the hundreds of thousands of miles of pipeline have a lack of penetration in the root pass?

"lack" may have been the wrong word, but I read it as "more difficult root penetration," done by guys who knew how to do it, obviously.

[Sberry]

While the rod has some dig to really penetrate so to speak there should be a gap. But here was a T someone was fooling with, almost melt thru and stack it right back up. That is a T in 1/4 as I recall.

[Sberry]

This is 2 plates clamped to the bench and reach under,,, overhead, 1/4 square butt, no bevel.

[walker]

Well, I think this is being way overthought. A single pass with either 6010 or 7018 will provide enough strength to topple the piers when the floating docks get hung up on it, a big motor boat was above it, and the tide goes out. So how much stronger does it need to be. I am partial to 6010 because I can guarantee you won’t be able to get the rusty pipe piers clean enough for a really good 7018 weld.

[Sberry]

This is plate that has heavy scale and been thru a fire, old 7018 rod. No cleaning. 6010 is just a bit easier in that respect but 18 burns thru it too and does maybe even better job in the sense that there is so much flux it carries off the crud better vs mixing it up in the weld pool.

[KenO]

For the metal thickness, first pass 6010 with 1/8 is good, but I would drop down to 3/32 for the 7018.

[Sberry]

Actually it need only 1 at that thickness.

[Don52]

Actually it need only 1 at that thickness.

Thanks for the time that you spent replying to my post. I appreciate it.

On Sunday I made a trip to Mark’s house to look at the boat hoist. I am sure that the pylons will be structural, but Pylon #2 is badly pitted. Mark suspects that the pipes used for the pylons weren’t new, when they were installed 30 years ago.

8. Pylon 1 is in good shape


9. Pylon 2 is in worst shape


10. Another view of pylon 2


It turns out that the required welds are a little different than what I was practicing. I suggested grinding the entire end of the ½” vertical plate, so that I could put a 1/2" fillet weld on the end. It will probably take me two passes to fill up the end of the plate. Mark wants me to put a 2^nd fillet weld on the back side, but I think that this would be overkill.

11. Grind on end of 0.5 inch vertical plate


There was a 3/32” gap between the top plate and the pylon. I suggested adding a 45° bevel on the ID of the top plate. The strategy for attaching the top plate to the OD of the pylon would be to have a groove weld covered by a 2^nd pass fillet weld.

12. Top plate gap is .095 inch