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Help Required for Vertical Uphill Stick Welding

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  • Help Required for Vertical Uphill Stick Welding

    50 years ago all I had for welding was a Smith oxyacetylene torch and a Miller Thunderbolt A/C buzz box welder. I used the torch for welding sheet metal and the buzz box for everything thicker. For the arc welder, I used it almost exclusively in the flat position. I did very little out of position welding with it. During the summer I worked for my uncle’s asphalt paving company, so I actually did a fair amount of stick welding for repair, but again it was almost exclusively in the flat position.
    In recent years I have used MIG and TIG exclusively, with almost no stick welding. For out of position welding on thick plate I have used dual shield flux core wire.

    Now I have an application for a friend and customer, where I have to weld some brackets to some pylons out on a dock. It makes sense to use the stick weld process (SMAW). The brackets are zinc dichromate plated and the pylons are painted. The pylon are 8-1/2” in diameter tube with a 5/16” wall. The top plate of the brackets are 1/4” thick. The brackets have two vertical plates one is 1/2” and the other is 1/4”.

    The following two pictures show the one bracket welded to a pylon. The required weld location is shown in purple.

    Click image for larger version

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    Click image for larger version

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    The last two pictures shows the location of the brackets to be welded relative to the dock.
    Click image for larger version

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    Click image for larger version

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    My plan is to first grind off the plating from the brackets and grind off the paint from the pylons in the area to be welded. I was planning on running the first pass with 6011 or 6010 rods for good penetration and to burn through any remaining contamination. The second pass I was planning on using 7018 rods.
    I have watched Jody’s videos and have been practicing vertical up hill fillet welds on both 1/4” and 1/2” plates with both 1/8” and 5/32” 6011 rods, but could use some help, from someone near Troy MI, who is proficient in vertical up hill welding with 6011 or 6010 rods. I would like them to watch me weld and give me pointers and show me on how to improve.

    -Don

    Smith Oxyacetylene Torch
    Miller Dynasty 200DX
    Lincoln SP-250 MIG Welder
    Lincoln LE 31 MP
    Lincoln 210 MP
    Clausing/Colchester 15" Lathe
    16" DoAll Saw
    15" Drill Press
    7" x 9" Swivel Head Horizontal Band Saw
    20 Ton Arbor Press
    Bridgeport

  • #2
    Just use 6010 (not 6011, as you are not using an A/C welder out there). Downhill is totally fine. No need to switch to 7018 afterward, just a couple passes with 6010 down and you are fine.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by walker View Post
      Just use 6010 (not 6011, as you are not using an A/C welder out there). Downhill is totally fine. No need to switch to 7018 afterward, just a couple passes with 6010 down and you are fine.
      Unless I am mistaken, 6010 is mainly a dc rod, the op says he has a Miller ac buzz box. Some dc rods will work with an ac machine, but, many will not. I suggest he use the 6011 rod.
      A FEW OF MY TOYS !!!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by smawgmaw View Post

        Unless I am mistaken, 6010 is mainly a dc rod, the op says he has a Miller ac buzz box. Some dc rods will work with an ac machine, but, many will not. I suggest he use the 6011 rod.
        I thought the A/C machine was 50 years ago. Pretty sure I wouldn’t want the additional shock risk of A/C welding in the water.

        Comment


        • #5
          Probably going to get alot of different opinions on what is best for this job. First question is what machine will you be using, ac or dc? Assuming dc,you can weld it using all 6010 down or 6010 down first pass with 7018 up after or all 7018 up. Any of the three will get the job done. If it was me I would use 7018 up 3/32 dia, because that is what I am most used to.


          Just realized you were asking for someone local to come give you some pointers. I am to far away.
          Last edited by MMW; 06-17-2021, 01:49 PM.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by walker View Post
            I thought the A/C machine was 50 years ago. Pretty sure I wouldn’t want the additional shock risk of A/C welding in the water.
            Never mind.
            Last edited by smawgmaw; 06-18-2021, 04:10 AM.
            A FEW OF MY TOYS !!!

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            • #7
              well that went downhill really fast. SmawGmaw I've had discussions here before that have brought on your unwanted comments. I hope a moderator can put an end to your fowl language and poor judgment once and for all.

              Comment


              • #8
                I love the diagrams, Don! According to the picture, looks like you have some help at least! And I know, 100%, that’s not you sitting on that dock.....

                I was hoping someone would through in the 7014 suggestion for good measure, but alas, I’ve been let down easy.

                Better get this done before the gales of November come calling!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Something. Click image for larger version

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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by walker View Post
                    Just use 6010 (not 6011, as you are not using an A/C welder out there). Downhill is totally fine. No need to switch to 7018 afterward, just a couple passes with 6010 down and you are fine.
                    I get it. It is much easier to run 6010 downhill instead of uphill. I guess that the strategy would be to add enough weld to get around the lack of root penetration inherent in downhill welding of metal that is thicker than 3/16"?

                    -Don
                    Smith Oxyacetylene Torch
                    Miller Dynasty 200DX
                    Lincoln SP-250 MIG Welder
                    Lincoln LE 31 MP
                    Lincoln 210 MP
                    Clausing/Colchester 15" Lathe
                    16" DoAll Saw
                    15" Drill Press
                    7" x 9" Swivel Head Horizontal Band Saw
                    20 Ton Arbor Press
                    Bridgeport

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
                      I love the diagrams, Don! According to the picture, looks like you have some help at least! And I know, 100%, that’s not you sitting on that dock.....

                      I was hoping someone would through in the 7014 suggestion for good measure, but alas, I’ve been let down easy.

                      Better get this done before the gales of November come calling!
                      I do have 7014 rods, but I didn't consider it for some reason.
                      I am planning on visiting the site tomorrow to see how bad the fit up is for the welding joints and to see how badly pocked the pylon is after Mark ground off the paint.

                      -Don

                      Smith Oxyacetylene Torch
                      Miller Dynasty 200DX
                      Lincoln SP-250 MIG Welder
                      Lincoln LE 31 MP
                      Lincoln 210 MP
                      Clausing/Colchester 15" Lathe
                      16" DoAll Saw
                      15" Drill Press
                      7" x 9" Swivel Head Horizontal Band Saw
                      20 Ton Arbor Press
                      Bridgeport

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sberry View Post
                        Something.
                        I wish that my welds looked as good as yours.

                        1. One quarter inch plate 1st pass
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                        2. One quarter inch plate 2nd pass
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                        3. One half inch 1st Pass
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                        4. One half inch 2nd Pass
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                        -Don


                        Smith Oxyacetylene Torch
                        Miller Dynasty 200DX
                        Lincoln SP-250 MIG Welder
                        Lincoln LE 31 MP
                        Lincoln 210 MP
                        Clausing/Colchester 15" Lathe
                        16" DoAll Saw
                        15" Drill Press
                        7" x 9" Swivel Head Horizontal Band Saw
                        20 Ton Arbor Press
                        Bridgeport

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MMW View Post
                          Probably going to get alot of different opinions on what is best for this job. First question is what machine will you be using, ac or dc?
                          I am planning on using DC. It is smoother and I believe safer.

                          Assuming dc,you can weld it using all 6010 down or 6010 down first pass with 7018 up after or all 7018 up. Any of the three will get the job done. If it was me I would use 7018 up 3/32 dia, because that is what I am most used to.
                          I am shooting for running 1/8" 6010/6011 up hill for the first pass. For the second pass I am shooting for running 7018 up hill. I plan to continue to practice until I am satisfied with the results. I can always fall back to one of the other options that you mentioned.

                          Just realized you were asking for someone local to come give you some pointers. I am too far away.
                          Yes, I wish you were closer.

                          -Don
                          Smith Oxyacetylene Torch
                          Miller Dynasty 200DX
                          Lincoln SP-250 MIG Welder
                          Lincoln LE 31 MP
                          Lincoln 210 MP
                          Clausing/Colchester 15" Lathe
                          16" DoAll Saw
                          15" Drill Press
                          7" x 9" Swivel Head Horizontal Band Saw
                          20 Ton Arbor Press
                          Bridgeport

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I wish that my welds looked as good as yours
                            Those do look as good, the first one especially. Don,,,, I think its good you check and worry a little but you got nothing to be embarrassed about here. I scuff stuff with a grinder on occasion, a little smooth and sometimes so subtle its hard to tell I dun it. Yours look good enough that I wouldnt have any problem paying the bill.
                            The pictures are highly magnified and show every hair out of place, in the real world those would look pretty good and not draw a second look once they painted a little.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sberry View Post
                              Those do look as good, the first one especially. Don,,,, I think its good you check and worry a little but you got nothing to be embarrassed about here. I scuff stuff with a grinder on occasion, a little smooth and sometimes so subtle its hard to tell I dun it. Yours look good enough that I wouldn't have any problem paying the bill.
                              The pictures are highly magnified and show every hair out of place, in the real world those would look pretty good and not draw a second look once they painted a little.
                              Thanks. I have been continuing to practice both the 6011 and the 7018 rods. Below are some of my practice pieces.

                              5. Practice samples
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                              I am beginning to read the puddle and respond correspondingly. Here is my 6011 up hill.

                              6. 6011 90 amps
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                              And here is the 7018 practice.

                              7. 7018 115 amps

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                              Tomorrow I will weld some 1/4" and 1/2" Tee joints together.

                              -Don
                              Smith Oxyacetylene Torch
                              Miller Dynasty 200DX
                              Lincoln SP-250 MIG Welder
                              Lincoln LE 31 MP
                              Lincoln 210 MP
                              Clausing/Colchester 15" Lathe
                              16" DoAll Saw
                              15" Drill Press
                              7" x 9" Swivel Head Horizontal Band Saw
                              20 Ton Arbor Press
                              Bridgeport

                              Comment

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