How to: CAD without a computer

[Forced_Firebird]

CAD = Cardboard Aided Design hehe

[ryanjones2150]

That’s my game too. Good show, sir.

[Franz©]

Been using that system on the JenAir burning/grinding table. Cat Assisted Design worked well for 20 years, but Gremlin wet to the Bridge and my workload increased.

I also like PAD but they get real nasty about pulling them nice politician campaign signs up for the cardboard & wire. Some kind of Law about it as a matter of fact.

[Forced_Firebird]

Thanks Ryan!

Roll cages? I love building them, but the competition this close to Miami is difficult - everyone's answer to my prices is "I can have it done in Hialeah for $400". So, I just get word of mouth jobs from people who have seen the work my shop produces. It's just me and 2 very part time guys in a 2500sf shop - rent down here has finally hit $14/sf/yr - only saving grace is I have been here for 9yr, so I have a little break. They look at me funny when I tell them it's $40k/yr to keep my doors open, and I don't get a dime until the shop bills are paid.

This is a 370z, so the space and angle behind the seats won't allow a 1.75" bar to hit the floor without an additional bends to keep the main hoop at the B-pillar angle. We are only allowed 4 bends equaling 180° +/- 10°, and these coupes need to have another bend, or the hoop will hit the floor 8" into the door opening and foul the seat. I have another going to come in for a fix, the other local builder doesn't follow the rule book and it's illegal. They added another bend at the bottom where I just put a plinth block (which is legal). My plan for that car is just to encase the hoop from the 4th/5th bends to the floor and mimic this job.

[Noel]

If I showed you guys the stack of templates I'm hanging on to you'd think I invented the idea, had ideas to do it again, or was just plain hoarding paper. Just curious, what's it for or hiding? Extra points for the painting by the way.

[Forced_Firebird]

Got an Everlast plasma cutter a few years ago, last about half that, otherwise this job could have gone a lot faster. Had to cut 1/8" and 3/16 1018 with these countours on a 4" hand angle grinder....need to finish restoring the Kitamura, then it would be real CAD/CAM

[Forced_Firebird]

If I showed you guys the stack of templates I'm hanging on to you'd think I invented the idea, had ideas to do it again, or was just plain hoarding paper. Just curious, what's it for or hiding? Extra points for the painting by the way.

See my previous post. It's a plinth block for a roll cage. It can be painted since it will be bolt-in. The top plate has stover captive nuts welded to the bottom. This way if the owner ever decides to go full wheel to wheel race car, it will be possible to unbolt it to be able to access the a-pillar bars for 360° welds. I have seen and failed far too many cars in tech due to incomplete welds, makes an ugly race car when they have to hole-saw the roof and patch it to get to those welds.

[Noel]

You're right about not reading that post. Makes sense to me now.

You mentioned $14 a sq.. I think the money is in owning the building? I'm sure that it balances out at tax time if you hold it together which you seem to have done, but it's almost criminal still the price they charge for shop space. I'm sure it's cheaper in China, Taiwan, India...on par however for my neck of the woods and why I still struggle in my garage for space to work.

[Forced_Firebird]

You're right about not reading that post. Makes sense to me now.

You mentioned $14 a sq.. I think the money is in owning the building? I'm sure that it balances out at tax time if you hold it together which you seem to have done, but it's almost criminal still the price they charge for shop space. I'm sure it's cheaper in China, Taiwan, India...on par however for my neck of the woods and why I still struggle in my garage for space to work.

It is highway robbery TBH. I moved in 9yr ago at less than $7. I now pay $11/yr (that's 12mos*rent/SF), so per month I pay almost a buck). The building is worth millions, there's 24 units in it. I had the choice of 3 or 4 bays, couple of them were smaller, but have central air. My unit is 83x30 with a single door on the end, no cross breeze - looking back I should have taken one under air. I have since bought a 3 ton package A/C, welded casters on it and roll the door down with panels to go on either side. Shop stays at 80°f, almost no humidity. Prior top that the laser thermometer showed 110° on the ceiling, and mid 90's pointing longitudinally through the shop, 80-90% humidity. In 2009, businesses were going belly up, now we are at 100% occupancy with a waiting list.

I only have a few more years, we are only staying here because of the schools, have 3 teenagers still at home, one graduates college in Dec. Between what we pay for a large house and the shop space, I can go to south Georgia and have several acres with a barn/hanger in the back yard for far less monthly output, and similar income.

My friend just bought a free standing building the same size, his mortgage is $500 less per month than my rent, but a business property loan was a jump-though-the-hoop, and he had to put 25% down in cash as well as carry a bond on the property.

There's something like 6.5m people in this tri-county area, can't wait to go back to country living.

[Noel]

The rich play their games to make more money, the poor play their games to avoid working, the middle pushes the rock and pays for it all. Sounds fair doesn't it?

I'm going to say, Florida to Georgia, doesn't seems so bad. That's not like a move from Alberta to Manitoba?

I'm not sure if it's I don't know the game, rules of the game, or just how to play the game? But if I follow the governments lead, I need to borrow more and keep spending.

As it is I don't. But I'm pretty good at spending when I'm not being cheap and thrifty.
Lol...I haven't ruled out a life in white collar crime. Never to old to learn a new skill right? Credit fraud...how much time does a guy do for that?

[Franz©]

As I recall from things I've seen in the past your prison system up there is pretty palatial and easy going Noel. More like 3-4 guys sharing an apartment than cages and barred windows.

Of course that representation is at least o1 years old if not more. I'd encourage you looking into the accommodations before heading into a life of crime.

[Forced_Firebird]

Noel, it's old money. The landlord is over 90, the wife is 60. They have properties all over the states, and reside in Hollywood. So, she likes to compare a working "condo" to the Hollywood storage facility they have locally. They store movie props (basically a storage), we work for a living. She is Keen on everything from stripped out race cars ready for roll cages, to "why is he sawing wood in the parking lot". Apparently, they pay big bucks on the west coast for bubbles and rainbows. She married up, and the building is the only thing she has in the will.

My biggest conundrum is it will take me five figures to move 15 cars, machinery, welders, floor lifts, etc, only to save $300/mo. At that rate it's a 5-6yr plan to recoup costs. Better to stay, suck it up buttercup, let the offspring finish school and "retire" by the time the AARP card come in.

Many of my friends settled first, then had babies. They started at 40 and will be 60 by the time they aren't battling teenagers. I followed my Grammy's model and started at 20. So, in less than a decade all four will be grown and gone, as they say "laugh now, cry later" while I am "crying now, laughing later".

[ryanjones2150]

There is the option I took...zero chirrens.

But on the incomplete roll cages....there is a guy here, he’s pretty much the only full time cage and chassis builder in the area, and he does terrible work. His welds are like a pile of boogers. I will say, he has been improving in his skills, but I can’t count the repairs I’ve made to his work. When something comes in the shop, I know right away if it’s his work. I tell the customer we need to inspect the tops of all the joints and 9 of 10 aren’t complete. It’s like he just gives up...”meh, good enough...”. Sometimes it’s a massive pain in the fourth point of contact to get to, sometimes all it takes is a tiny bit more effort. His TIG welding is far worse than his MIG welding, which isn’t very good either. I tell people all the time that they need to go get their money back from him. Then maybe he’ll wake up and do some honest work.

[Forced_Firebird]

Ah yes, I know one of those types. The landlord owns another building in town, he tells me about the guy. He is always paying his rent on the 90th day late, and actually lives in the shop. I don't know how he gets so many of the cage jobs, but like your local, he gets lazy. If one just thinks about the order of operation, it's quite easy to have 360° welds. Even if one was to be lazy, plinths are allowed, tack the cage, cut a few inches off the legs, weld the top, jack it up and weld the plinths in. Alternatively, hole-saw the floor and drop the cage legs through the floor, weld the top, jack it up and slide the base plates under. Even with my #9 flex head, lens and a stubby cap, welding .120" wall tubing .5" from the ceiling proves difficult.

I will admit there's been times where an odd joint caused me to encase the area with cardboard, blast some gas in the area before letting the MIG wire travel 2" and "chicken-poop" the last 1/4" of the 360°, but, have yet to fail scrutiny.

My thought is, if the welds break in an accident, the thing that's supposed to save the driver's life could be the very thing that impales him (her?). Don't even want to get started on chromoly. I have seen hardened welds snap off door bars, leaving a neat looking fish-mouth on the cross bar. Is it "really" that difficult to torch the welds after welding to anneal?

[Franz©]

Thing I've noticed for years in the automotive world "It looks sorta like how the real cage I saw at the track from 50 feet away" seems to be the standard of acceptability.

"Looks good from my house" is the standard of excellence.
"Ain't finished grinding yet" covers all crap piles

MIG is a wonderful process, but it never should have been sold to the public at large.