Creating A Transmission Bolt Boss On An Engine

[Chris401]

This project is what prompted me to quit lurking in the shadows and join this site. Here is a link to what I have done so far. It will help to the big picture of what I am doing.

http://ford-mel-engine.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1687

A guy told me that he ground that corner of the block off, used a factory starter and just ran the four bolts for 15 years. If I do grind off the block to allow for the FE starter I am going to add the fifth bolt in there some how. The block is just under 9/16" thick and an 1 5/8" deep where the bolt would go. The transmission bolts are 7/16". That would put a thin skin of cast iron on two sides of the bolt. I have a few ideas on how to get around it but I would rather build the block up for a full size factory bolt. If I do cut up a couple of bell housings everything would be torqued together and then cold welded 1/4" to 1/2" at a time.


Question: What are your suggestions for building up the block?

Thanks

[Noel]

I'm a slow learner, and you should really clean those parts up, especially the transmission. That said, I'm confused? Is that bolt broken off? Are you looking to remove it so you can put a bolt in?

[Chris401]

A better description is in the link to the MEL forum posted. The link is working on my phone, does it work on a computer? That is a pencil mark of about where the FE bolt would go and a description of the cast I have to work with.
Thanks

[Franz©]

I'm thinking jig plate + drill bushing to get the old bolt out so you don't get the joyous experience of drilling out the side f the hole, followed by a good quality insert to take all thread stress off the cast iron.
Probably cost less with the bushing than it will cost if you gotta fix a screwup.

[Chris401]

I'm thinking jig plate + drill bushing to get the old bolt out so you don't get the joyous experience of drilling out the side f the hole, followed by a good quality insert to take all thread stress off the cast iron.
Probably cost less with the bushing than it will cost if you gotta fix a screwup.

That is a good idea. Same theory as a Konsert?

[Chris401]

There is no bolts broken off in the block.

[Noel]

Seems Franz and I both think there's a bolt in there and the question is method of removal. Your not exactly saying that and while I've looked over the pictures, If something was ground off the block beside that casting flash of a gusset, I'm not seeing it? The reason could be I own a Chev, don't know squat, or maybe not the best to give advice on such things? I'm not sure. But your pictures don't do justice for the thinness of the casting, especially if there is a bolt existing in that location.

Franz had a solid. I'm not buying all of it as my method for removal but there's a number of ways to skin that cat if the cat is a broken bolt needing extraction. I'm almost sure if you get the broken bolt out, the block will be fine to accept another as is after running a tap threw it to chase the threads. So it comes down to the method of removal and not damaging threads. How about we make that the focus and see how much material remains after that's done?

[Noel]

Ok...no bolt. Then what Franz said. Bolt the trans on, that's the jig. Use a center finder to punch the mark, or a drill that fits the hole to located the center, drill and tap. Done.

[Franz©]

Dang sure looks like a busted off screw in that casting about a thumb abd a half from the dowel pin and where the thumb is pointing to in another pic.

Now the question is just how critical is that fastener? Dowel pin looks like it handles all the rotational stress and the screws are only there to keep the transmission married up to the engine tight.
That being the case it can be done cheap and dirty.

On the other paw, according to Liz B Underfoot Feline Execucat, cheap and dirty generally means ya gotta chase that mouse again.

I am 99.79235% dead against centerpunching and drilling in such situations. Either marry the bell housing up and insert a drill bushing to get most of the hole filling matter out, or make a quick template from the bell housing and drill 99% of the root diameter thru a drill bushing. Ya break less drills that way and don't wind up sending it to the EDM guy.

Someplace I got some good videos on this including how to repair a Toyota head bolt in an aluminum jug.. I just gotta find where I filed em.

[Franz©]

Found it.
This guy is an artist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W13kiM7bqyY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W13kiM7bqyY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXEOAw3qp6M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wUKn5cvACE

I don't think I'd want his job, but I learned a few things watching him

[MMW]

So what looks like a broken bolt is actually just a circle drawn in pencil where you need to put a hole with some threads, is that correct? Can you put 5/16 threads in there and use a shoulder bolt?

I'm still not quite sure what you want to build up, an engine block or a bell housing? If someone ran it with four bolts for 15 years why can't you do the same?

[Chris401]

Well thanks for taking a look at this post. If you guys read all the post, looked at all the pictures and the captions both here and the MEL Engine Forum I typed in then there is nothing I can add. If I can come up with an insert I am happy with that is the way I will go.
Thanks

EDIT: The new bolt is for compression strength only. In 1966 Lincoln added a bolt under the starter. For the bean counters to add that much material to the block the 61-65 must have had some problems.

[ryanjones2150]

I have about three tool box drawers full of different threaded inserts, it’s kind of one of my things I guess. But I’m not sure how that is going to help your problem. Any threaded insert in that area will likely be too big for those thin walls. Even with a thin-wall keensert, I’d think it would not leave enough meat to bite into. If you advise on the size bolt, I can let you know what size insert I have that would fit and the size hole and tap you need to accomplish that.

It seems to me you’re asking how to build up that area off the block to have enough metal to drill into. I’ve done a few build ups for things needing holes drilled and tapped, but never an engine block. But I can’t really see the difference other than making sure the back is decked off flat. Assuming it’s cast iron, the only material I’d recommend, and what has worked for me in the past, is tig braze aluminum bronze on AC. You’ll need AC because of the aluminum content of the filler. Work slow enough to heat the base metal and flow the filler but not enough to melt the base metal. Once you get the base pad flowed onto the block, the build up will be so easy you could probably get your 10 year old nephew to do it.

On drilling and tapping the hole....use a transfer punch of the correct diameter. You dang sure want this hole to be as straight as possible to limit the lateral stress that will be unnecessary. If you don’t have a transfer punch, I’ve used a drill bit to mark holes in the past, but not by drilling. Use it like a punch but GENTLY tap the end of the drill when it’s in the hole, turn it 90 degrees and tap again. “X” marks the spot.

If you’re stuck on the threaded insert thing, I have plenty, let me know the size and I’ll see what I can do to get you one sent out.

[Chris401]

Found it.
This guy is an artist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W13kiM7bqyY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W13kiM7bqyY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXEOAw3qp6M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wUKn5cvACE

I don't think I'd want his job, but I learned a few things watching him

I have had to send a couple of to be removed. Both of the first clips were part two. Tom's explanation at the end of when to ease out and when to not should be maniditory for heavy line ASE certitfication. I have a tap extractor set somewhere. Before I quit the automotive business I was looking at getting a complete new set of tap and die and a Timesert kit. I do not remember the Toyota kit being out in 2011 but I do remember sending an engine off. Never occurred to me to take them the whole car. Sure would have been easier. Thanks for posting.

[Chris401]

I have about three tool box drawers full of different threaded inserts, it’s kind of one of my things I guess. But I’m not sure how that is going to help your problem. Any threaded insert in that area will likely be too big for those thin walls. Even with a thin-wall keensert, I’d think it would not leave enough meat to bite into. If you advise on the size bolt, I can let you know what size insert I have that would fit and the size hole and tap you need to accomplish that.

It seems to me you’re asking how to build up that area off the block to have enough metal to drill into. I’ve done a few build ups for things needing holes drilled and tapped, but never an engine block. But I can’t really see the difference other than making sure the back is decked off flat. Assuming it’s cast iron, the only material I’d recommend, and what has worked for me in the past, is tig braze aluminum bronze on AC. You’ll need AC because of the aluminum content of the filler. Work slow enough to heat the base metal and flow the filler but not enough to melt the base metal. Once you get the base pad flowed onto the block, the build up will be so easy you could probably get your 10 year old nephew to do it.

On drilling and tapping the hole....use a transfer punch of the correct diameter. You dang sure want this hole to be as straight as possible to limit the lateral stress that will be unnecessary. If you don’t have a transfer punch, I’ve used a drill bit to mark holes in the past, but not by drilling. Use it like a punch but GENTLY tap the end of the drill when it’s in the hole, turn it 90 degrees and tap again. “X” marks the spot.

If you’re stuck on the threaded insert thing, I have plenty, let me know the size and I’ll see what I can do to get you one sent out.

Ryan you get it.

This is a running drop in and go engine, I hope. I think I will go the Chevy starter route on it so I am not stuck with a unsellable Lincoln engine. The 430 with the pencil mark is the one I am rebuilding. I hope it is a simple overhaul. It is the engine I am going to modify for the fifth bolt. I have seen a few of these engines built with 490-534 lbs torque all in at 19-2200 rpm.