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Aluminum trailer - but too much flex

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  • Franz©
    replied
    You want a bit of flex or it will break someplace.
    Now you need a few stake pockets, flag holders, and reenforced D rings on all 4 sides. Personally I'd add a V to the center of the tail X member and a drop in pocket for a bull block to pull crap off with the winch.
    Might as well put some floor under some of the empty spaces for your rollers, straps, tarps, chains and blocks too while the deck is off, and don't forget a place for the broom & shovel. Dunnage rack and a spare tire carrier are nice too. Get a couple LEDs on the handle end and back corners and a battery box in too.

    No need to thank me, just pass it along to the next guy in trouble.
    BTW, you don't need a long cable, just hang the machine from that beam up on top. You can make your own trolley out of a couple plates, some tube and skate wheels.
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  • Willvis
    replied
    Lol. And yes 4x12 sheets of 5/8 drywall are HEAVY. Especially when your hanging them 16+ feet in the air on the ceiling. I should post some pics of of hanging it.

    Well this machine I have can run robots and what not but mainly its the pulse features that I wanted it for. Makes such a difference on aluminum. Its also got your hobart beat on raw amperage. 575 amps but needs 3 phase power for that. I'm limited to 325 on single phase, seems good enough for me. I would have settled for a millermatic 350p or lincoln 350mp but I got this machine for cheap.

    Ryan the 10' whip is a good idea but I would get annoyed pretty quick unless all I was doing with it was welding parts on the table. Maybe I'll give it a try one day. Even the 15' whip for steel wire I find to be way to short. 25' is a nice reach.

    Anyways I was busy today welding in the pieces to the frame. just adding the 2x3 on top and welding it down to the channel rails underneath and to the cross members made all the difference. I added a few cross braces as well but they didn't seem to add much rigidity any more. I think its about as rigid as its going to get now. It still has a bit of flex but I don't think there's much more I can do about it. Its more of a bounce in the trailer now then flex anyways. A 2nd axle in front of the one that's on there would probably take out any remaining flex now. When the time comes that I want to add a 2nd axle then I'll probably add in a few more gussets and such. So I just wanted to say thanks to Franz and everyone else that helped me figure out the problem. Especially Franz for telling me what I suspected, that the problem was not from having the one axle and showing the importance of a solid connection from frame rails to cross members. I got a few craters to fill in and maybe re-do a couple crappy welds but it is very much a use able trailer now.

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  • Franz©
    replied
    Originally posted by Willvis View Post

    The drywall? Its a cheap wall covering that doesnt burn.

    The fancy features... Well theres the pulse on pulse, pulse mode, stt, and a few others I think... Set the program to what process and filler metal you got and away you go, everything is synergic so just set your wire feed speed. Doesnt work very well when you jery rig the miller spool gun to the lincoln machine tho.

    Your mm-200 welds great... Well sure for the application that its inteded for. Its not going to do a great job welding up my trailer is it? Nor would it weld up a thick backhoe bucket with any sort of productivity lol.
    I remember drywall. It's heavy. I didn't like carrying it or hanging it up. Too much like work.

    Well theres the pulse on pulse, pulse mode, stt, and a few others I think... Set the program to what process and filler metal you got and away you go
    Oh, you're talking about a power supply for a robot. I played with one of those at the LWS. Fellow in a suit had his laptop plugged into it. Owner told me to test drive it cause if anybody could screw it up I was the man. It squirted aluminum nice, but they should have told me the computer was programmed for trigger on, trigger off.

    Backhoe buckets ain't Miller Electric's cup of tea. His cousin Hobart Bros with the bronze colored paint loves them though. Hobart Bros tops out at 450 amps and loves shooting 1/16 wire out the 4 wheel wire drive that can go remote from the power unit. I don't think it knows how to do the pulse thing though.

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    That's what I use, Will, 3/64 5356. I have a 10' whip on my not-quite-as-old-as-Franz's-mm200 but not too far off either mm250. Runs great. Only had one bird's nest and that was after I was bragging that I never had one at all. Now I'll probably have my second. Dadgumjt.

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  • Willvis
    replied
    Originally posted by Franz© View Post
    Dude (modern expression I learned) what's all the white on the vertical and angular surfaces surrounding the trailer? I seem to recall offices with similar surfaces.

    " fancy features"- what are them? I got On/Off, 1-6 on a rotary switch and a little round knob on my Miller Electric MM-200 from 1980 and it welds great.
    OK, I am pondering adding a LED array on the machine so I can see the numbers easier. Is that one of them fancy features you speak of?
    The drywall? Its a cheap wall covering that doesnt burn.

    The fancy features... Well theres the pulse on pulse, pulse mode, stt, and a few others I think... Set the program to what process and filler metal you got and away you go, everything is synergic so just set your wire feed speed. Doesnt work very well when you jery rig the miller spool gun to the lincoln machine tho.

    Your mm-200 welds great... Well sure for the application that its inteded for. Its not going to do a great job welding up my trailer is it? Nor would it weld up a thick backhoe bucket with any sort of productivity lol.

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  • Franz©
    replied
    Dude (modern expression I learned) what's all the white on the vertical and angular surfaces surrounding the trailer? I seem to recall offices with similar surfaces.

    " fancy features"- what are them? I got On/Off, 1-6 on a rotary switch and a little round knob on my Miller Electric MM-200 from 1980 and it welds great.
    OK, I am pondering adding a LED array on the machine so I can see the numbers easier. Is that one of them fancy features you speak of?

    There is nothing wrong with bolting in its appropriate application. There's even a whole new section on the Engiscrewup floor where they house "Bolting Enginincompoops" who have a huge backlog of jobs waiting evaluation so they can determine it can't be done as proposed. Them guys are good, they told me they are. Far as the Ironworkers go I ain't been real fond of them since they started using the fancy air wrench that holds the bolt and turns the nut in a single operation. Ratfink Ironworker I went to High School with wouldn't even let me play with the contraption. He got all uppidy since the company quit using rivets.
    Honestly, bolts do provide a lot of hold if and when used properly. A bolt can actually provide a lot more surface contact area in a joint than welding does in most situations. Surface and contact is a major factor.

    I'm just a dumb weldor, what do I know about building things with wheels?
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    Last edited by Franz©; 03-29-2019, 04:48 PM.

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  • Willvis
    replied
    Andall this time I haven't been billing coffee breaks! Gotta change my policy. And yes I hate spool guns. Especially when your using it on a machine thats its not designed for and I cant use any of the fancy features. Well thats not true entirely, can play with various settings and get it to work somewhat. Like right now Im using 3/64 5356 but running the 4043 program with trim turned way down. So I welded a bunch of tubing in this morning and its already 500% stiffer. No gussets yet but thats on the agenda for this afternoon.

    So what can we learn from all this? Leave bolting to the ironworkers lol.
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  • Franz©
    replied
    I despise spool guns and staple guns. Both are designed, engineered and manufactured to run dry just after you wriggle into position to use them.

    Wilvis, you gotta sign up for Informed Delivery from the Post Office. It's free and it shows you where packages are in transit as well as what's in the mailbox that day. Saves a lot of trips to the mailbox.

    Noel, never discount the power of lazy. It saves me a lot of mistooks, and as long as nobody hears the snoring my naps are billable time. You leave some grease pencil or erasable marker sketching on the coffee table (paperless society) the majority of people will think they are work related to the job. Coffee becomes billable time. With all the dern video cameras around today you have to be creative. Also don't neglect using the minute of silence hospitals have gone to in operating rooms where the whole team takes a full minute to individually preview what they are about to do. I can pick up a full hour a week with that procedure. LAZY is the key to successful naps.

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  • Willvis
    replied
    I put some 3/64 wire in and its a night and day difference. Using the pulse and its pretty sweet.

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    What seems to help me with the burn back when I mig aluminum, and don't ask why, a old guy showed me the trick and it works most of the time....before I strike the next arc, I bend what's sticking out of the contact tip back, just fold it back as far as it'll go, bend it smooth over. Try it and see if it works. I'm probably using bigger wire than you though and it's not through a spool gun either, but worth a shot.

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  • Willvis
    replied
    Originally posted by Noel View Post

    LOL. ya think so? I don't know Franz...? I'm thinking that's a bit of a stretch? But I'm following along. Keeping up and enjoying the pictures of this wild ride. Willvis, you must have that camera on wide angle because that trailer is lengthening? Must be my eyes? Carry on, get a strain on. Show us some pre stressing.
    Lol Noel. I think the point he was making is that its a similar design in that the cross members are sitting ontop the frame rails. And the fact that the gussets did so much to stiffen it.

    I already started welding pieces. Getting really pissed off with this spool gun though. I keep burning back the tip on like every 5th start. Gonna do some more trouble shooting on it again. Maybe switch to 3/64 wire. Where is my push pull gun!? **** postal service.

    And actually the wiring was already done. I had to snip a few wires to move the harness away for welding

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  • Noel
    replied
    Those puzzles where you spot the differences... Your trailer is shorter. Yours is made of steel construction. Your inner rails are closer together and quite beefy in size. You have a greater overhang and under side gussets. Steel formed cross braces. A rail and sides.

    Similarities... single axle, going to haul something?
    You guys are doing good. I also like your trailer. I agree tilting trailers are the bomb. My little utility/sled/quad
    trailer
    tilts and swivels. Although the tilt isn't hydraulic or rear hinged for dumping.

    I think by the end of the day progress will have been made and that trailer will be, stiffened up. Add in some camber, on it's way to wiring and lights.

    Not that I have plans to make one but I'll say it has me thinking if I do, what have I learned and what will I do different? I've seen first hand constructing with Aluminum requires further considerations when taking into account what's been encountered and discussed.

    I'm sure others as well. That said, I'm cheap and lazy. I build one, limited welding, and adhesives. Lol...see you got me thinking? Weld on be instant happy. Adhesives and your waiting for glue to dry? Tough call?

    Waiting to see the finished results is going to be a long day of anticipation.

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  • FusionKing
    replied
    Yes that is the correct pre-load direction. You could over do it when you consider that all those pieces will shrink considerably when welded because it is aluminum. You don't want it to be obvious.
    After this I say just use it...... let it tell you what it needs as you go
    Biggest concern will be up front anyways, as you already know.

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  • Franz©
    replied
    Originally posted by Noel View Post

    LOL. ya think so? I don't know Franz...? I'm thinking that's a bit of a stretch? But I'm following along. Keeping up and enjoying the pictures of this wild ride. Willvis, you must have that camera on wide angle because that trailer is lengthening? Must be my eyes? Carry on, get a strain on. Show us some pre stressing.
    Help me out Noel, they're both ladders sitting on top of a pair of rails with a pulling thing on one end and a pair of tires. Mine tilts, he'll come to wish his did. Mine has a winch, he'll come to wish his did. Beyond length and steel -v- aluminum both are the same basic trailer. Oh sure, I got LED lighting on the deck for night loading and corner lighting so I can see where my foot is about to land in the dark, and tongue lights for night hookup convenience not to mention not impaling my knee on that &$#^*&( hitch, but the basic trailer remains a ladder sitting on 2 rails. Most flats work out that way.

    Boxes are a slightly different matter and dumps are a step beyond. Some are just a flatbed, others are welder, torch, propane torch/weldor warmer, food prep area , bench, vise, toolbox, drillpress, crane, light towers with some material storage, ventilation fan carrying systems. All depends on what you want the trailer to do and what you got to make it from.

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  • Noel
    replied
    [QUOTE=Franz©;n596100
    The yellow 8x10 deck in the picture is very similar to what you're building.
    [/QUOTE]

    LOL. ya think so? I don't know Franz...? I'm thinking that's a bit of a stretch? But I'm following along. Keeping up and enjoying the pictures of this wild ride. Willvis, you must have that camera on wide angle because that trailer is lengthening? Must be my eyes? Carry on, get a strain on. Show us some pre stressing.

    Leave a comment:

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