Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Aluminum trailer - but too much flex

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    So I have this thing lifted at the ends so the axle is hanging. That should add a bit of pre stress into it while I weld the tubing onto the frame rails. But im wondering isnt this the opposite way Id want to stress it? Wouldn't lifting the thing in the center put the bow going up like the way a semi trailer is or the way you put rafters bow up? What am i missing here?
    Attached Files
    www.silvercreekwelding.com

    Miller Trailblazer 325 efi
    Miller extreme 12vs
    Thermal arc 186 ac/dc
    Lincoln power wave 455m/stt with 10m dual feeder

    Comment


    • #47
      Here is what I meant with the tubing down the rails. Gonna weld it to the cross members and the frame rails. Then run a gusset over to the cross member. Click image for larger version

Name:	1553810692570654805475684200877.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	31.4 KB
ID:	596099
      www.silvercreekwelding.com

      Miller Trailblazer 325 efi
      Miller extreme 12vs
      Thermal arc 186 ac/dc
      Lincoln power wave 455m/stt with 10m dual feeder

      Comment


      • #48
        You're going to have to trust me Wilvis, when it comes to pre-stressing a trailer deck. Support the 4 corners and let the axle hang.
        I realize it seems illogical, but you're building a deck with the axle in the center, not a deck with the axle at one end and hitch at the other. You want your ends up.

        The yellow 8x10 deck in the picture is very similar to what you're building. The only new steel in the build was the Kindorf crossmembers, side rails and pipe used for the rail. Rest all came from recycle inventory. The rails are from pallet rack so they're either 14 or 10 ga material.
        Strength & stability are primarily derived from the connections and bracing. There are plenty of gussets at the Xmembers tieing them to the rails in both directions to take all the wow potential out.

        Two angles cross the rails in front of and behind the spring perches for additional strength. The rails don't run the entire length of the deck and stability isn't bothered because angle braces complete the connection to nose and tail X-members. Additional strength is gained by the pipe rail, 5" above the Kindorf at the ends and 5½" at the center, That rail creates a truss. Note the flat stock at the ends of the truss for additional strength.

        This trailer can and will stand on it's tail and hitch and pick the tires off the ground without deck deflection. It doesn't waddle or wow going down the road at 70, and it can haul 20 foot material by dropping a T post into a socket on the tongue and mounting a truss to the top of the orange posts sitting near the tail lights.

        Axle is Government surplus 1 ton with hydraulic brakes activated by an Atwood hitch.

        This trailer was built inverted on stands. Until the gusseting was in I could stand at 1 corner and wow the deck a foot by lifting. With the gussets tieing rails to deck Xmembers the wow went away.

        Comment


        • #49
          I just realized that 24 year old Rustoleum paint job needs some touchup.

          Maybe Randy the paint happy fireman can stop by. I still got some Rustoleum left.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Franz© View Post
            This trailer was built inverted on stands. Until the gusseting was in I could stand at 1 corner and wow the deck a foot by lifting. With the gussets tieing rails to deck Xmembers the wow went away.
            Thats amazing. I thought it was bad that when I sat in the front corner it dropped an inch.

            Well I got all my pieces cut and coped to go into the channel. That took a while. Ok Franz Im going to trust you on lifting the 4 corners. But if it messed up Im coming after you. Just kidding lol. I appreciate the help. I could just throw some weight in the middle of the deck to stress it a bit more couldn't I? No need to hang the weight off the axle?

            So tomorrow I'll lift the corners and then weld all the pieces in. I have one more 2x3 tube left that I could chop up and use as gussets going from the new rail pieces to the cross membes. I suppose a bit of plate probably would have been cheaper but I already bought the tube. Seem like a good plan? Click image for larger version

Name:	20190328_190228.jpg
Views:	113
Size:	41.9 KB
ID:	596111
            www.silvercreekwelding.com

            Miller Trailblazer 325 efi
            Miller extreme 12vs
            Thermal arc 186 ac/dc
            Lincoln power wave 455m/stt with 10m dual feeder

            Comment


            • #51
              Sort of like they say about lawsuits Wilvis; First one's the worst one.
              BTW, that yellow trailer was welded with a genuine 1980 Miller Electric MM-200 wire welding machine.

              When you get about sticking metal together in a form you haven't before you pretty much want to figure you might get a surprise or 7. You make enough new shapes you pretty much know where to look for the problem and have an idea when it will pop up.
              Truth to tell, I had 3 other hydraulic tilt mechanisms between deck & tongue before I settled on the Cessna cylinder which I cut down and the cab pump off a GMC cabover.

              Some days when you're playing proof of concept you make maximum progress by drinking coffee and scribbling soapstone on the deck. Every job has those days.

              Yea, you can cheat by putting a plank over the axle & stacking concrete blocks. Just don't get carried away with the blocks.

              Click image for larger version

Name:	H dump.JPG
Views:	98
Size:	49.3 KB
ID:	596115

              This one arrived as a 6 foot square 14" deep Hoffman electrical cabinet. Today it's a 6 x 8 dump trailer with twin cylinders. If you look close you can see the joint at the rear gusset wh
              ere it grew longer. It went together inverted on the shop floor and rolled out on skates for flipping.

              Little woman was trying to adopt it for her gardens, but couldn't hitch to it, let alone power it with her garden tractor, so,
              Click image for larger version

Name:	O Tnk dump.JPG
Views:	99
Size:	37.8 KB
ID:	596116
              I taught a young man to steer a hotglue gun making this from a residential oil tank. It dumps to 70° by cranking the winch. Hinge mechanism for dumping is completely eliminated by employing the axle as the pivot point.

              You stick enough metal together you see the product you want in your head before you cut the first piece. A weldor sees the weld before he strikes the first arc, and it goes together.

              I checked the take a number thing, and if you pull a ticket tonight I can get you in 26 August. When you finish up what you came for we'll go up to Reds and have supper.

              Comment


              • #52
                [QUOTE=Franz©;n596100
                The yellow 8x10 deck in the picture is very similar to what you're building.
                [/QUOTE]

                LOL. ya think so? I don't know Franz...? I'm thinking that's a bit of a stretch? But I'm following along. Keeping up and enjoying the pictures of this wild ride. Willvis, you must have that camera on wide angle because that trailer is lengthening? Must be my eyes? Carry on, get a strain on. Show us some pre stressing.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Noel View Post

                  LOL. ya think so? I don't know Franz...? I'm thinking that's a bit of a stretch? But I'm following along. Keeping up and enjoying the pictures of this wild ride. Willvis, you must have that camera on wide angle because that trailer is lengthening? Must be my eyes? Carry on, get a strain on. Show us some pre stressing.
                  Help me out Noel, they're both ladders sitting on top of a pair of rails with a pulling thing on one end and a pair of tires. Mine tilts, he'll come to wish his did. Mine has a winch, he'll come to wish his did. Beyond length and steel -v- aluminum both are the same basic trailer. Oh sure, I got LED lighting on the deck for night loading and corner lighting so I can see where my foot is about to land in the dark, and tongue lights for night hookup convenience not to mention not impaling my knee on that &$#^*&( hitch, but the basic trailer remains a ladder sitting on 2 rails. Most flats work out that way.

                  Boxes are a slightly different matter and dumps are a step beyond. Some are just a flatbed, others are welder, torch, propane torch/weldor warmer, food prep area , bench, vise, toolbox, drillpress, crane, light towers with some material storage, ventilation fan carrying systems. All depends on what you want the trailer to do and what you got to make it from.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Yes that is the correct pre-load direction. You could over do it when you consider that all those pieces will shrink considerably when welded because it is aluminum. You don't want it to be obvious.
                    After this I say just use it...... let it tell you what it needs as you go
                    Biggest concern will be up front anyways, as you already know.

                    www.facebook.com/outbackaluminumwelding
                    Miller Dynasty 700...OH YEA BABY!!
                    MM 350P...PULSE SPRAYIN' MONSTER
                    Miller Dynasty 280 with AC independent expansion card
                    Miller Dynasty 200 DX "Blue Lightning"

                    Miller Bobcat 225 NT (what I began my present Biz with!)
                    Miller 30-A Spoolgun
                    Miller WC-115-A
                    Miller Spectrum 300
                    Miller 225 Thunderbolt (my first machine bought new 1980)
                    Miller Digital Elite Titanium 9400

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Those puzzles where you spot the differences... Your trailer is shorter. Yours is made of steel construction. Your inner rails are closer together and quite beefy in size. You have a greater overhang and under side gussets. Steel formed cross braces. A rail and sides.

                      Similarities... single axle, going to haul something?
                      You guys are doing good. I also like your trailer. I agree tilting trailers are the bomb. My little utility/sled/quad
                      trailer
                      tilts and swivels. Although the tilt isn't hydraulic or rear hinged for dumping.

                      I think by the end of the day progress will have been made and that trailer will be, stiffened up. Add in some camber, on it's way to wiring and lights.

                      Not that I have plans to make one but I'll say it has me thinking if I do, what have I learned and what will I do different? I've seen first hand constructing with Aluminum requires further considerations when taking into account what's been encountered and discussed.

                      I'm sure others as well. That said, I'm cheap and lazy. I build one, limited welding, and adhesives. Lol...see you got me thinking? Weld on be instant happy. Adhesives and your waiting for glue to dry? Tough call?

                      Waiting to see the finished results is going to be a long day of anticipation.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Noel View Post

                        LOL. ya think so? I don't know Franz...? I'm thinking that's a bit of a stretch? But I'm following along. Keeping up and enjoying the pictures of this wild ride. Willvis, you must have that camera on wide angle because that trailer is lengthening? Must be my eyes? Carry on, get a strain on. Show us some pre stressing.
                        Lol Noel. I think the point he was making is that its a similar design in that the cross members are sitting ontop the frame rails. And the fact that the gussets did so much to stiffen it.

                        I already started welding pieces. Getting really pissed off with this spool gun though. I keep burning back the tip on like every 5th start. Gonna do some more trouble shooting on it again. Maybe switch to 3/64 wire. Where is my push pull gun!? **** postal service.

                        And actually the wiring was already done. I had to snip a few wires to move the harness away for welding
                        www.silvercreekwelding.com

                        Miller Trailblazer 325 efi
                        Miller extreme 12vs
                        Thermal arc 186 ac/dc
                        Lincoln power wave 455m/stt with 10m dual feeder

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          What seems to help me with the burn back when I mig aluminum, and don't ask why, a old guy showed me the trick and it works most of the time....before I strike the next arc, I bend what's sticking out of the contact tip back, just fold it back as far as it'll go, bend it smooth over. Try it and see if it works. I'm probably using bigger wire than you though and it's not through a spool gun either, but worth a shot.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            I put some 3/64 wire in and its a night and day difference. Using the pulse and its pretty sweet.
                            www.silvercreekwelding.com

                            Miller Trailblazer 325 efi
                            Miller extreme 12vs
                            Thermal arc 186 ac/dc
                            Lincoln power wave 455m/stt with 10m dual feeder

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I despise spool guns and staple guns. Both are designed, engineered and manufactured to run dry just after you wriggle into position to use them.

                              Wilvis, you gotta sign up for Informed Delivery from the Post Office. It's free and it shows you where packages are in transit as well as what's in the mailbox that day. Saves a lot of trips to the mailbox.

                              Noel, never discount the power of lazy. It saves me a lot of mistooks, and as long as nobody hears the snoring my naps are billable time. You leave some grease pencil or erasable marker sketching on the coffee table (paperless society) the majority of people will think they are work related to the job. Coffee becomes billable time. With all the dern video cameras around today you have to be creative. Also don't neglect using the minute of silence hospitals have gone to in operating rooms where the whole team takes a full minute to individually preview what they are about to do. I can pick up a full hour a week with that procedure. LAZY is the key to successful naps.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Andall this time I haven't been billing coffee breaks! Gotta change my policy. And yes I hate spool guns. Especially when your using it on a machine thats its not designed for and I cant use any of the fancy features. Well thats not true entirely, can play with various settings and get it to work somewhat. Like right now Im using 3/64 5356 but running the 4043 program with trim turned way down. So I welded a bunch of tubing in this morning and its already 500% stiffer. No gussets yet but thats on the agenda for this afternoon.

                                So what can we learn from all this? Leave bolting to the ironworkers lol.
                                Click image for larger version

Name:	20190329_131723.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	28.4 KB
ID:	596145
                                Click image for larger version

Name:	20190329_131731.jpg
Views:	79
Size:	27.3 KB
ID:	596146
                                www.silvercreekwelding.com

                                Miller Trailblazer 325 efi
                                Miller extreme 12vs
                                Thermal arc 186 ac/dc
                                Lincoln power wave 455m/stt with 10m dual feeder

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X