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  • Spur gear help needed

    ]I'm rebuilding a customers swing boom on his log skidder. The boom was made by Esco who no longer sells or supports them. Parts are n/a.

    I need to find or have made a new spur gear & rack. It just swings the boom from side to side. I was quoted $9000.00 by Rush gear to have a replacement made. Can't put that much money into just two pcs. Anyone got any ideas or suggestions before I search for other quotes? I'm assuming that most places would be in the same price range for custom gears. I have searched for something in a "stock" size but coming up empty.

    Gear is 3 pitch, 11.8125 od x 3.125 id x 3" wide with a 7.5" x .5" deep counter bore on one face. The rack is 25"+/- long x 2.75"w x 1.875 deep. I think it is just mild steel as it grinds & cuts like it.

    As a last resort I may try to have 1/2" thick plates water jet cut & then laminate them to make a gear & do the same for the rack.

    gear welded to post.
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    gear removed.
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    rack.
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    rack end detail.
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    Last edited by MMW; 04-07-2015, 11:37 AM.
    MM250
    Trailblazer 250g
    22a feeder
    Lincoln ac/dc 225
    Victor O/A
    MM200 black face
    Whitney 30 ton hydraulic punch
    Lown 1/8x 36" power roller
    Arco roto-phase model M
    Vectrax 7x12 band saw
    Miller spectrum 875
    30a spoolgun w/wc-24
    Syncrowave 250
    RCCS-14

  • #2
    Originally posted by MMW View Post
    ]I'm rebuilding a customers swing boom on his log skidder. The boom was made by Esco who no longer sells or supports them. Parts are n/a.

    I need to find or have made a new spur gear & rack. It just swings the boom from side to side. I was quoted $9000.00 by Rush gear to have a replacement made. Can't put that much money into just two pcs. Anyone got any ideas or suggestions before I search for other quotes? I'm assuming that most places would be in the same price range for custom gears. I have searched for something in a "stock" size but coming up empty.

    Gear is 3 pitch, 11.8125 od x 3.125 id x 3" wide with a 7.5" x .5" deep counter bore on one face. The rack is 25"+/- long x 2.75"w x 1.875 deep. I think it is just mild steel as it grinds & cuts like it.

    As a last resort I may try to have 1/2" thick plates water jet cut & then laminate them to make a gear & do the same for the rack.

    gear welded to post.
    [ATTACH]35138[/ATTACH]
    gear removed.
    [ATTACH]35139[/ATTACH]
    rack.
    [ATTACH]35140[/ATTACH]
    rack end detail.
    [ATTACH]35141[/ATTACH]
    Have you considered looking into having them laser cut?? then finish machined??

    a laser would get your gear teeth to a pretty decent tolerance..

    It could not be too expensive to have an hour or two of Acad .. Mastercam or some other CAD/Cam system time to generate drawing files..with an experienced draftsman.. especially since you have the old parts as models...

    Maybe check with these guys..??

    http://precisiongearmanufacturers.co...laser-cutting/
    Last edited by H80N; 04-07-2015, 01:08 PM.
    .

    *******************************************
    The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

    “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

    Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

    My Blue Stuff:
    Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
    Dynasty 200DX
    Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
    Millermatic 200

    TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

    Comment


    • #3
      Spur gear help needed

      My neighbor is a retired machinist. He has a lot of experience in this type repairs.
      Looks like could be made from 3" stock but I'm welder & wannabe machinist, he is machinist.
      Be glad to ask him tomorrow & get back to you.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MMW View Post
        ]I'm rebuilding a customers swing boom on his log skidder. The boom was made by Esco who no longer sells or supports them. Parts are n/a.

        I need to find or have made a new spur gear & rack. It just swings the boom from side to side. I was quoted $9000.00 by Rush gear to have a replacement made. Can't put that much money into just two pcs. Anyone got any ideas or suggestions before I search for other quotes? I'm assuming that most places would be in the same price range for custom gears. I have searched for something in a "stock" size but coming up empty.

        Gear is 3 pitch, 11.8125 od x 3.125 id x 3" wide with a 7.5" x .5" deep counter bore on one face. The rack is 25"+/- long x 2.75"w x 1.875 deep. I think it is just mild steel as it grinds & cuts like it.

        As a last resort I may try to have 1/2" thick plates water jet cut & then laminate them to make a gear & do the same for the rack.

        gear welded to post.
        [ATTACH]35138[/ATTACH]
        gear removed.
        [ATTACH]35139[/ATTACH]
        rack.
        [ATTACH]35140[/ATTACH]
        rack end detail.
        [ATTACH]35141[/ATTACH]
        What's wrong with the old set??? That isn't a 360 degree swing and the teeth on the gear and rack can be built up. I have cut old teeth out of a rack and welded new ones in and ground to fit and I would think that if the gear could be reoriented, it would help. I gave the new teeth 100% weld and heated the rack before welding.

        Comment


        • #5
          H80N - Yes I thought about laser or water jet cut pcs. I assumed 3" thick would be to much to cut in one pc. or not accurate enough so I thought several 1/2" thick pcs. "laminated" together should work.

          Thanks for the lead, I will contact them.

          gnforge - Thanks for the offer but I do have two good machine shops I use. Haven't gone there yet as I figured it would be labor intensive for them to make one off gears. I am trying out shops dedicated to gear making first.

          digr - The old gear is very worn on both sides as it was spun 180* (reoriented) 17 years ago during last rebuild. A new rack was installed then but now is really bad & has two missing teeth. I do have the original rack which is the better of the two. I thought about welding up teeth & grinding but again that will be very labor intensive so that is a last resort. They need to be accurate as the rack gets shimmed to a pretty close tolerance.

          Thanks for the suggestions.
          MM250
          Trailblazer 250g
          22a feeder
          Lincoln ac/dc 225
          Victor O/A
          MM200 black face
          Whitney 30 ton hydraulic punch
          Lown 1/8x 36" power roller
          Arco roto-phase model M
          Vectrax 7x12 band saw
          Miller spectrum 875
          30a spoolgun w/wc-24
          Syncrowave 250
          RCCS-14

          Comment


          • #6
            There may be a generic gear that can either be cut out or have the right hub welded in.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sberry View Post
              There may be a generic gear that can either be cut out or have the right hub welded in.
              I have been looking for a "stock" size gear of the same od & pitch. No luck yet. I can always make the center fit if I found one.
              MM250
              Trailblazer 250g
              22a feeder
              Lincoln ac/dc 225
              Victor O/A
              MM200 black face
              Whitney 30 ton hydraulic punch
              Lown 1/8x 36" power roller
              Arco roto-phase model M
              Vectrax 7x12 band saw
              Miller spectrum 875
              30a spoolgun w/wc-24
              Syncrowave 250
              RCCS-14

              Comment


              • #8
                Received this e-mail back from the link H80N posted. Still looking.

                Mic, good afternoon. Unfortunately BC Gear is no longer in business. Should you need any precision machining done at your business, let me know as I would like to recommend someone.
                Thanks,

                Elton Bahnsen
                KLSS, Inc.
                864-934-9950
                MM250
                Trailblazer 250g
                22a feeder
                Lincoln ac/dc 225
                Victor O/A
                MM200 black face
                Whitney 30 ton hydraulic punch
                Lown 1/8x 36" power roller
                Arco roto-phase model M
                Vectrax 7x12 band saw
                Miller spectrum 875
                30a spoolgun w/wc-24
                Syncrowave 250
                RCCS-14

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by MMW View Post
                  Received this e-mail back from the link H80N posted. Still looking.

                  Mic, good afternoon. Unfortunately BC Gear is no longer in business. Should you need any precision machining done at your business, let me know as I would like to recommend someone.
                  Thanks,

                  Elton Bahnsen
                  KLSS, Inc.
                  864-934-9950
                  Sorry to hear that...
                  .

                  *******************************************
                  The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                  “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                  Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                  My Blue Stuff:
                  Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                  Dynasty 200DX
                  Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                  Millermatic 200

                  TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MMW View Post
                    Received this e-mail back from the link H80N posted. Still looking.

                    Mic, good afternoon. Unfortunately BC Gear is no longer in business. Should you need any precision machining done at your business, let me know as I would like to recommend someone.
                    Thanks,

                    Elton Bahnsen
                    KLSS, Inc.
                    864-934-9950
                    Looking at the pictures maybe I missed it but the loose gear did not look to bad, most of the wear should be in the rack, that rack should be able to be welded up and reground. Or I would be looking at other manufactures who uses rack and pinion. FYI Vermeer uses a rack and pinion drive in there bore rigs, you might be able to get the Vermeer factory to disclose who makes them. Also depending on the wear the rack can be shimmed in the base to give a tighter grip with the teeth, normally racks wear from the end of the tooth in, so a shim behind the rack will push the teeth to mesh deeper. That would be a last resort.
                    Kevin
                    Lincoln ranger 305g x2
                    Ln25
                    Miller spectrum 625
                    Miller 30a spoolgun
                    Wc115a
                    Lincoln 210mp
                    F550 imt service truck

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Gear is very worn although the edges look decent as the rack doesn't go all the way to the edges. Gear is 3" wide & the replacement rack was 2.5".

                      Went to an old friends machine shop today to discuss. He doesn't do this type of stuff but knows all about it. Searched his connections & catalogs but nothing comes up that is exact. So now he is making me cad drawings & once that is done I will get quotes on having it cut in one pc. by an EDM & also get quotes on having thinner pcs. laser or water jet cut, then "laminating" them together.

                      That's where I'm at. I now have way too many hours in this job just trying to source the gear & rack.
                      MM250
                      Trailblazer 250g
                      22a feeder
                      Lincoln ac/dc 225
                      Victor O/A
                      MM200 black face
                      Whitney 30 ton hydraulic punch
                      Lown 1/8x 36" power roller
                      Arco roto-phase model M
                      Vectrax 7x12 band saw
                      Miller spectrum 875
                      30a spoolgun w/wc-24
                      Syncrowave 250
                      RCCS-14

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MMW View Post
                        Gear is very worn although the edges look decent as the rack doesn't go all the way to the edges. Gear is 3" wide & the replacement rack was 2.5".

                        Went to an old friends machine shop today to discuss. He doesn't do this type of stuff but knows all about it. Searched his connections & catalogs but nothing comes up that is exact. So now he is making me cad drawings & once that is done I will get quotes on having it cut in one pc. by an EDM & also get quotes on having thinner pcs. laser or water jet cut, then "laminating" them together.

                        That's where I'm at. I now have way too many hours in this job just trying to source the gear & rack.
                        The rest of us will be richer for your experience and willingness to document and share the process of resolving this problem...

                        I know that is not much solace for all the time and effort you are putting into this.. but hopefully it will greatly help others in the future...

                        Thanks..
                        .

                        *******************************************
                        The more you know, The better you know, How little you know

                        “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten”

                        Buy the best tools you can afford.. Learn to use them to the best of your ability.. and take care of them...

                        My Blue Stuff:
                        Dynasty 350DX Tigrunner
                        Dynasty 200DX
                        Millermatic 350P w/25ft Alumapro & 30A
                        Millermatic 200

                        TONS of Non-Blue Equip, plus CNC Mill, Lathes & a Plasmacam w/ PowerMax-1000

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Generally if the gear teeth wear too much, going to a finer pitch will reduce the contact stress and improve gear life. Harder gears also wear better. Gear teeth break for a variety of reasons:
                          1. The pitch is too fine.
                          2. The teeth have become thinner and weaker due to wear
                          3. Some junk got caught in the gear mesh.

                          Depending on why the rack teeth failed, one option would be to replace the gear and rack with one that had a finer pitch, and then shim under the rack to maintain the correct center distance. This assumes that if you can't find an exact replacement it might be possible to find something close. It does seem that this gear set has a very course pitch and massive face with.
                          Last edited by Don52; 04-14-2015, 04:10 PM.
                          Miller Thunderbolt
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                          Lincoln SP-250 MIG Welder
                          Lincoln LE 31 MP
                          Lincoln 210 MP
                          Clausing/Colchester 15" Lathe
                          16" DuAll Saw
                          15" Drill Press
                          7" x 9" Swivel Head Horizontal Band Saw
                          20 Ton Arbor Press
                          Bridgeport

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                          • #14
                            I'm finally back on this job. I decided & was able to have a new rack & gear made which I just received two weeks ago. Long lead time but best price was from Griffin gear. $6200. I was able to get manufacturing drawings which helped immensely.

                            I need to weld the new gear to the old tower. Gear is 4340 heat treated & tower is mild steel. Looking for another opinion on procedure & wire to use. My research & past experience tells me to preheat to 400-500* with a slow cool. For wire I can use a low hydrogen 70 series as I only need to match the lowest base metal which is the tower. Some dilution will occur which should raise the overall strength of the weld slightly but will remain plenty ductile. I should not have to use a 110ksi rod due to the fact both pcs. are not 4340.

                            Tower sits on top of gear & gets welded fully around.

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                            Last edited by MMW; 09-25-2015, 08:12 PM.
                            MM250
                            Trailblazer 250g
                            22a feeder
                            Lincoln ac/dc 225
                            Victor O/A
                            MM200 black face
                            Whitney 30 ton hydraulic punch
                            Lown 1/8x 36" power roller
                            Arco roto-phase model M
                            Vectrax 7x12 band saw
                            Miller spectrum 875
                            30a spoolgun w/wc-24
                            Syncrowave 250
                            RCCS-14

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Long road to finish this. Started earlier in the year, took awhile to find a gear mfg. then 8 weeks to have it made. The customer by that time had rigged up a pulley set up for the winch as his other skidder went down. By the time he was able to take this off the job & me to schedule it in was awhile. In all it was about seven months total.

                              We assembled the machine today. Customer just has to finish hooking up a few hoses. We hooked up the swing hoses & rotated it back & forth. At first we didn't have the cylinders fully locked down & it bound up by getting off center. Stupid I know. Pulled it all apart & it only left two small marks inside one of the cylinders that we were able to sand out but hand. Got very lucky there. I really didn't want to make another cylinder. It was tough figuring the whole thing with out any prior knowledge or assembly book. I'm not the first one to work on this so everything was double checked as I went. In my mind it is a weird set up. Everything has to fit just so & there isn't any adjustment to speak of.

                              first couple passes in.
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                              finished welding
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                              wrapped in insulation for slow cool
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                              Last edited by MMW; 09-25-2015, 08:44 PM.
                              MM250
                              Trailblazer 250g
                              22a feeder
                              Lincoln ac/dc 225
                              Victor O/A
                              MM200 black face
                              Whitney 30 ton hydraulic punch
                              Lown 1/8x 36" power roller
                              Arco roto-phase model M
                              Vectrax 7x12 band saw
                              Miller spectrum 875
                              30a spoolgun w/wc-24
                              Syncrowave 250
                              RCCS-14

                              Comment

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