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  • aneuploidy
    started a topic square tubing for pipe fence???

    square tubing for pipe fence???

    Hi guys,

    I want to do a pipe fence using square tubing. I wan to use 2 1/2" tubing for the line posts.

    My question:
    Would 11 gauge tubing be sufficient?
    If so, would using 2 1/2" --- 3/16" thickness work for the corner/end posts or should I go with something bigger?

    The fence is 6 feet tall with posts set 3 feet into ground using concrete. The posts will be set 8 foot apart with a top (into the side of the post not running along the top) and a bottom rail. I will put no-climb horse fence on it. It is to keep 2 very large livestock guardian dogs in and maybe horses later.

    Thanks for any help.

  • aneuploidy
    replied
    Originally posted by Arizona Joe View Post
    I calculated them by hand, but here is a web site that will calculate the properties of any square tube for you.

    http://www.engineersedge.com/calcula...are_case_4.htm

    One easy way to compare different sizes is to compare their Section Moduli. The bigger the section modulus the stronger the member. If the section modulus of one member is twice that of another member, then that member is twice as strong as the other.

    Your new 3" 11 gauge tubes are 47% stronger than the 2 1/2" 11 gauge tubes. The calculation of the 3" x 3/16" is left as an exercise for the reader .
    Thanks!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • BD1
    replied
    Originally posted by aneuploidy View Post
    Thanks. By vertical, do you mean running the 1/4" x 3" from top to bottom rail?
    Thanks again for the advice
    Yes, top to bottom. You could also run diagonally too. depends how much you want to invest in material.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arizona Joe
    replied
    Calculations

    Originally posted by aneuploidy View Post
    Thanks. So it looks like you get much stronger by going up in diameter. Is there a chart that has those figures or did you have to calculate them. I ended up buying 3" 11 gauge for the line posts and 3" 3/16 for the end/ corner posts.
    Thanks again
    I calculated them by hand, but here is a web site that will calculate the properties of any square tube for you.

    http://www.engineersedge.com/calcula...are_case_4.htm

    One easy way to compare different sizes is to compare their Section Moduli. The bigger the section modulus the stronger the member. If the section modulus of one member is twice that of another member, then that member is twice as strong as the other.

    Your new 3" 11 gauge tubes are 47% stronger than the 2 1/2" 11 gauge tubes. The calculation of the 3" x 3/16" is left as an exercise for the reader .

    Leave a comment:


  • aneuploidy
    replied
    Originally posted by Arizona Joe View Post
    The worst case in bending is where you have a single 6' high pole embedded in the ground and you applied a horizontal force at the top to bend it. The force required for a 2 1/2" 11 g square tube to yield in bending is 435 lbs. For 2 1/2" 3/16" tube the force is 628 lbs. And for a 4" 3/16 tube the force is 1750 lbs.
    Thanks. So it looks like you get much stronger by going up in diameter. Is there a chart that has those figures or did you have to calculate them. I ended up buying 3" 11 gauge for the line posts and 3" 3/16 for the end/ corner posts.
    Thanks again

    Leave a comment:


  • aneuploidy
    replied
    Originally posted by BD1 View Post
    I would say you are fine. What ever you decide on I would span upon material length. So if you are buying 20' lengths go on 10' centers to minimize waste. If you feel the span is to great , add 1/4'' x 2 ''or 3'' flat stock vertical in between. My pig pens are 2'' square tube uprights, 1 1/4'' pipe horizontal, 12' span and 1/4''x 2''flat stock vertical in center of span. Never had a problem with 800 pound boar and 500 pound sows. With material costs I always try to design for minimum waste.
    Thanks. By vertical, do you mean running the 1/4" x 3" from top to bottom rail?
    Thanks again for the advice

    Leave a comment:


  • BD1
    replied
    I would say you are fine. What ever you decide on I would span upon material length. So if you are buying 20' lengths go on 10' centers to minimize waste. If you feel the span is to great , add 1/4'' x 2 ''or 3'' flat stock vertical in between. My pig pens are 2'' square tube uprights, 1 1/4'' pipe horizontal, 12' span and 1/4''x 2''flat stock vertical in center of span. Never had a problem with 800 pound boar and 500 pound sows. With material costs I always try to design for minimum waste.

    Leave a comment:


  • Arizona Joe
    replied
    Force Required to Bend the Tube

    Originally posted by aneuploidy View Post
    Hi guys,

    I want to do a pipe fence using square tubing. I wan to use 2 1/2" tubing for the line posts.

    My question:
    Would 11 gauge tubing be sufficient?
    If so, would using 2 1/2" --- 3/16" thickness work for the corner/end posts or should I go with something bigger?

    The fence is 6 feet tall with posts set 3 feet into ground using concrete. The posts will be set 8 foot apart with a top (into the side of the post not running along the top) and a bottom rail. I will put no-climb horse fence on it. It is to keep 2 very large livestock guardian dogs in and maybe horses later.

    Thanks for any help.
    The worst case in bending is where you have a single 6' high pole embedded in the ground and you applied a horizontal force at the top to bend it. The force required for a 2 1/2" 11 g square tube to yield in bending is 435 lbs. For 2 1/2" 3/16" tube the force is 628 lbs. And for a 4" 3/16 tube the force is 1750 lbs.

    Leave a comment:


  • aneuploidy
    replied
    Originally posted by fencemaker View Post
    The 11 gauge 2 1/2 tubing will work for what you're going to do I believe but on the stretch/corner posts I would up size the post to 4 inch tubing. The 2 1/2 ×3/16 will probably work but past experience makes me suggest 4 inch. Plus it looks slicker.
    Thanks for the thoughts

    Leave a comment:


  • fencemaker
    replied
    The 11 gauge 2 1/2 tubing will work for what you're going to do I believe but on the stretch/corner posts I would up size the post to 4 inch tubing. The 2 1/2 ×3/16 will probably work but past experience makes me suggest 4 inch. Plus it looks slicker.

    Leave a comment:


  • walker
    replied
    Sounds fine to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • aneuploidy
    replied
    Originally posted by FernTJ View Post
    Based on some numbers I found for modulus and moment of inertia it looks to me like the 11 ga is comparable to a 4x4 fir post and the 3/16 wall is stronger but not even close to a 6x6 fir post.

    The spreaders will add strength to the corners for holding the tension on the fence. You didn't say what the spreaders would be made of but without spreaders you would be pushing those corners pretty hard if there were 500 pounds of tension on each side. Maybe with the top and bottom rails you aren't planning on very much tension.

    That fence would probably be fine for horses, but not buffalo.

    The other concern would be rust or filling with water and freezing, at least up here in Minnesota.
    Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • FernTJ
    replied
    Based on some numbers I found for modulus and moment of inertia it looks to me like the 11 ga is comparable to a 4x4 fir post and the 3/16 wall is stronger but not even close to a 6x6 fir post.

    The spreaders will add strength to the corners for holding the tension on the fence. You didn't say what the spreaders would be made of but without spreaders you would be pushing those corners pretty hard if there were 500 pounds of tension on each side. Maybe with the top and bottom rails you aren't planning on very much tension.

    That fence would probably be fine for horses, but not buffalo.

    The other concern would be rust or filling with water and freezing, at least up here in Minnesota.

    Leave a comment:

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