Armor Plating

[migman69]

That is a interesting warning Admin, But it does make sense you never know what i inside a safe, The safest bet would be to have a professinal locksmith open it up. Who gave this warning to you.

[KBar]

In that particular case, I would never have cut into the safe with a torch. Bad enough the young lad lost his life, even if there were no blasting caps, there could have been stock, money, old papers or bonds inside that safe and one spark would have ruined them.

[joshcarlegis55]

WingerEd,
You sound really knowledgable about safe. My question is have you heard of cyanide bottles in the door of older safes? A buddy I work with told me about it a few years ago . I always wondered about it, did they use cyanide in the doors?
Thanks.

I have seen movies like that before too................ not true.

[joshcarlegis55]

I received this message in my "webmaster" account:

Regarding the thread titled Armor Plating in Welding Projects. Please warn the people never to cut into a safe unless they are confident they know what is contained inside that safe. A local construction company lost a 20 year old man last year when he was told by his boss to cut into an old safe. Turns out it contained blasting caps or some other explosive and killed him when it blew up. If you don't know what's in the safe use anything other than torches so you might be able to return to work the next day too.

it would take serious heat to set off caps along with some friction....... sounds like an old wives tale.... send me your safe that have "exposive caps" with them..... ill split the proceeds!

[Winger Ed.]

If you don't know what's in the safe use anything other than torches so you might be able to return to work the next day too.

Wow.
I've worked for this company a couple years re-building & repairing these things. And it never ceases to fasinate me when one comes in the shop 'locked up', and I have time to watch it being opened.

Sometimes we know they're empty, sometimes someone just doesn't have the combination, and some come in under 24 hour-a-day armed guard.

To open them, ya drill a 1/4" hole with one of those diamond core bits, or sometimes a few carbide tiped ones will work. This takes a while, some of these vaults are tougher than Chinese Algebra to drill into. But every safe has a 1/4" majic spot-- plus or minus a eighth inch or so-- that you can drill into and get inside the lock itself. Then, reaching through the hole with a micro viewing scope and little bitty tools-- manipulate or defeat just the lock, and open it. I've seen it take 30 minutes, some vaults its a few hours, but its fasinating to watch one of these guys work.

I had one come in last year that another locksmith had gotten frustrated with, and started drilling holes all over it.
The darn thing loked like a cheese grader-- and he still didn't get it open.

In the old days- they'd blast one or cut one open with a torch or burning rod.
,,,, It was pretty hard to hurt Gold coin.
But nowdays, a thief has to be much more sophisticated to keep from destroying the contents of a modern vault.

Ken,
I sure didn't mean to hi-jack your thread.
But these things often get side tracked, or go off someplace else,
and I appologize for getting carried away.

Ed.

.

[c wagner]

Wow.
Ken,
I sure didn't mean to hi-jack your thread.
But these things often get side tracked, or go off someplace else,
and I appologize for getting carried away.

Ed.

.

I think this thread went to a good place, it's still somewhat on topic, very interesting and informative, and the best part... no soap opera arguing!!!

[KBar]

Ken,
I sure didn't mean to hi-jack your thread.
But these things often get side tracked, or go off someplace else,
and I appologize for getting carried away.

Ed.

.

That is quite allright, I dont mind. It is still in the same category and very informative. Whoever knew 5 years ago when I started welding I would be messing with armor plating and who of you knew you would be messing with safes, nobody does so any information like this that we can share is very helpful to the next guy.

I would sooner see somebody get long winded than a guy get blown up because he didnt know one little trick to do before he touches that rod or lights that torch.

[DSW]

hey, I thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth. If I remember corectly the US Navy had 2 types of Armor plate for battleships, Iowa class. Type A, a rolled plate that I believe was face hardend. used for decks and side armor belts and Type B armor that was cast. used for turrets and small parts like the rangefinders and armored doors. If I remember correctly Type A was not welded but rivited and type B was usually bolted. I can't remember exactly why they didn't weld them but I do remember reading an explanation. They welded almost everything else on these ships so they had to have had a good reason. I have tried to locate the book I had that listed this but can't find it right now. I may have returned it to my father (ret. USN, masters in Naval Architecture and Marine Eng. from MIT, he had done some studdies on battle ships) Side armor was 2 armored layers with concrete in between, this helped to adjust to the curves of the hull. If you ever want to see some REAL armor you just have to vist the USS New Jersey, Missouri, or North Carolina. and look at the armored conning station, main turrets or the armored deck.

[KBar]

DSW, I do know if you weld armor plating, it does weaken the metal to a soft metal state making it vulnerable to artillery. It can be drilled without affecting the temper. Kind of like hardened steel like chisels, punches, etc. If you get them hot enough (cherry) and just let them air cool, it will take the hardness out of them.

[shorerider16]

Kinda sounds like armour plate is just case hardened steel.

Hard on the outside with a soft centre.

[tacmig]

????

Not sure if y'all read my post on page 1, #8 but basic armour plate is just how I described it. One of my first go- rounds as a young welder was working with a contractor who built armour support systems for Brinks, B of A and the U.S. Army. One thing I forgot to add was that specialty armour is also explosion bonded "cladding". This is used for bonding dissimilar metals such as Al and steel and hot rolled multi layered explosion proof doors, hatches etc. But there are other forms of "armour" or "element intrusion" systems. Here's one I'll never forget. 5X9 foot sealed vault (unknown use but I can guess radiation and/or high temp was a worry) swing door. top 2" hot-rolled steel followed by 3" reinforced 12K psi concrete followed by 2 more inches hot rolled steel followed by 2 inches of hot poured NiC and finally backed by 1" of chrome-vanadium. I remember the door costing $26K to build 20 years ago...

TacMig

[DSW]

On a slight tangent. Armor but not weldable. The British in WWII were outfitting merchant vessals with concrete block for crew protection. They found that they had almost as many casualties from concrete splinters as they did from the bullets themselves. The solution was "Plastic armour", a special type of asphalt containing a very hard granite agregate over a thin mild steel plate. This material would stop even AP bullets from penetrating with no splinters or ricochets. From the report from HMS Excelent. (British gunnery establishment near Portsmouth used to test weapons and such, similar to Aberdeen proving grounds here)

"There is no doubt that Plastic Armour is very greatly superior to any other non-magnetic material, excluding non-magnetic bullet proof steel, so far tried... it is most strongly recomended that fitting of concrete protection should be discontinued and plastic Armour fitted in its place. "

Plants were set up for production in most British and US ports and even in Egypt. the US dept of the Navy estimated that the new protection saved over $44,000,000 worth of special steel alone. Most of the landing craft that participated in the D-day invasion were fitted with it. In all some 10,000 ships were fitted with Plastic Armour before the war ended. Information from "Secret Weapons Of World War II" by Gerald Pawle

[paullibya]

welding armour

welding armour is really difficult but with a bit of knowledge, the correct welding rods (MMA), AND A BUCKET FULL OF SKILL all different types of armour can be welded.
Been there, seen that,done it,
All over the world on private military contracts to repair blown up military vehicles for the past 25 years