Power everywhere but no 220 230 or 240

[Wacko Welder]

Let guess Tempriser

You are an engineer aren't you? You have to be, no one but an engineer would work so hard against what is normally done or what is viewed as safe by most . . . .

I worked in engineering offices as a Instrumentation Designer for 15+ year. Before that I was a tech and learned from "hands on" experience . . .

The EEs I worked with were the worst. On paper they were geniuses, at home their lights flickered from all their energy saving inventions that NO ONE else was smart enough to design.

I mean the above in a joking manner, but really I gotta know, are you an engineer?

[tempraiser]

That's why I'm asking. I know it could be a bad idea, I just wanted to know if anyone had tried it before.

[Noisy Nova]

If you know so much, then why are you asking so many questions. If you combine two seperate phased leads, how is that any different than three phase? My Dynasty's main power cord is designed for three phase, to wire it to single phase you disconect one of the hot leads. Likewise, a three phase plug becomes a single phase plug if one of the hot leads is left unused, for instance a pigtail adapter with one wire left unhooked.

If you want to parrallel your input power for a higher voltage, then I wold think you would want the two plugs on the same phase, but a different CIRCUT (breaker). And on the same note, shouldn't all plugs in a house be of the same phase? Consider, the power comes into the house in one main line, which is single phase and then sent through a stepdown transformer before being distriubted to the rest of the house. There is really no reason why a phase change should take place, so all the plugs should be the same phase.

Sorry, shorerider, but you need to actually talk to a real electrician.

[walker]

"No. Three-phase is three-phase. I'm speaking of combining opposite phases of of single phase power." Can't have opposite phases af single phase. 3 phase = 3 distinct phases, single phase = 1 phase.

First off single phase poweer is only 1 phase, so there is no "opposite leg" of sinlge phase power. Try doing a google search on "single phase" or read up on it in Wikipedia. Might also try "single split phase" as well, as that is what you are really dealing with.
Try this link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_phase
It might enlighten you a wee bit as to what electric power in single phase is. Interestingly, that link also has a diagram of the "balanced load" that keeps coming up.
If you really want some help try posting a couple of picures, one of your breaker box, and one of where you want the power to go. I ran a 220v outlet on the bottom of my box in a weather tight housing until I could get the conduit run to my garage. I had about 50 feet of SO cord with a plug and recepticle on it. It worked great, and I still have and use the cord for moving my welder around the shop.

[tempraiser]

There are two hot wires and a neutral wire to worry about in most residential systems. It's only one phase, but the two hots are 180 degrees out-of-phase, so the two 110v lines are 220v apart. Do you understand how a sine wave moves?

[FusionKing]

Walker...thanks for the link. I now Know more than I comprehend
I do wish the original poster would answer our questions also tho. An open forum is a 2 way street. Even tho it may seem we are trying to steer you in a direction that you already know the answers to we are only trying to gather enuff facts to give a decent answer. If I was trying to get answers like you are seeking to find I prolly would not have said I was a renter.
All that being said I realize the liability and all, but the truth is if something was to happen to get you in trouble with your landlord whether he just seen your welder or a fire the best setup would be to make a temporary plug from the breaker box because it would be the safest. If you had a fire you might not get a chance to unplug your juryrig setup before you reach safety. But doing the temp set-up from the box will be a safe set-up forever and won't cause a problem like a fire if done properly.
Now I do have one question for you tempraiser...how many amp breaker is that dryer on and is it the only thing on that circuit? The reason I ask is a Dynasty will run anywhere between 100-500 volts single or 3 phase. If you had a 25 amp breaker on that plug then you wouldn't believe how truly amazing a dynasty will run on that set-up and 30 even better. I am thinking that a heating element on 110v is a pretty big draw and would have a big breaker. Then when and if you ever move you could run that Dynasty on whatever voltage you had there. I do mobile aluminum welding with my dynasty and use both 115v and 230 everyday. It works better on 20 amp breakers than 15's. Ground faults seem to pop fairly quick tho.
We do have electricians here but not sure if they read this board but have some on the motorsports side. Maybe they are already answering you as I'm not sure who the sparkies are over here.
Simply put If I came to visit you or do a job for you I could bring my 200 dynasty and run it off of what you had available now and take your money and you would be satisfied and impressed with both my ability and my machine and then you would be simply shopping for a dynasty yourself. If you could afford one. That is the truth.

[Noisy Nova]

There are two hot wires and a neutral wire to worry about in most residential systems. It's only one phase, but the two hots are 180 degrees out-of-phase, so the two 110v lines are 220v apart. Do you understand how a sine wave moves?

True, 120 to neut. is one ph., the other 120 to neut., is the other ph. Household 240 is two phase, although nobody refers to it this way. Industry has 240 single phase (to ground) in some cases. But most industrial welders run on 480V 3PH (US) or 575V 3PH Canada.

[SignWave]

Shazam!!! By the powers of grayskull!!! in the end there can only be one!!

I sence an electrocution coming on....

Guys, Ive been reading this post and scraatching my head a little.
From what I gather here Tempraiser, you are thinking of taking the hot lead from one outlet and the hot lead from some other outlet and merging the two in order to (possibly) acquire a single phase 220/240 volt supply.

Is this correct? if it is, I strongly urge you to reconsider. Thsi is not considered to be a common wiring practice and you are asking for trouble.

If you need 240 you need to find your panel. Inside the panel there will be two metalic bars runing down the center and each is connected to a conductor that will be either 1 black and 1 red or 2 blacks. One is 120vac and the other is 120 v ac. the difference is that they are 180 degree out of phase with each other therfor if you place you meter across these two buss bars, you will have 240vac. In ANY panel, two breakers side by side will deliver 240VAC. The buss bars have been set up inside the panel in such a way that the breakers will alternate as you go down the stack.

If you need 240, talk to you landlord, and find your panel. Dont d i c k around taking juice from this outlet and juice from that outlet with wye connections or long extension cordamabobs..YOU ARE JUST ASKING TO SPEND CHRISTMAS IN AN ALTERNATE REALITY....

Single phase power is defined as 1hot and 1 neutral=120volt on a single phase panel OR 2 hots 180 degrees out of phase on a single phase panel=240VAC

Thre phase on the other hand... something somewhat the same but entirely different. There are three hot wires and a neutral in a panel.
the three phase wires are 120 degrees out of phase with each other and becuase of this, the phase to phase voltage is the cube root of 240 which = 208 VAC. The single leg voltage on a three phase system is still 120VAC.

Im not going to go into all the math. Its dry, boring and gets complicated in a hurry. Best left to those EE's who know it all.

dotn do anything like your thingking. Find the panel, get a 30A2pole breaker to fit your particular panel and keep a fire extinguisher near by...

[Noisy Nova]

I sence an electrocution coming on....

Guys, Ive been reading this post and scraatching my head a little.
From what I gather here Tempraiser, you are thinking of taking the hot lead from one outlet and the hot lead from some other outlet and merging the two in order to (possibly) acquire a single phase 220/240 volt supply.

Is this correct? if it is, I strongly urge you to reconsider. Thsi is not considered to be a common wiring practice and you are asking for trouble.



If you need 240, talk to you landlord, and find your panel. Dont d i c k around taking juice from this outlet and juice from that outlet with wye connections or long extension cordamabobs..YOU ARE JUST ASKING TO SPEND CHRISTMAS IN AN ALTERNATE REALITY....

...

Great advice.
'Y' adapters should only be used by an electrician, and then only as a temporary emergency thing. I've never made one, 'cause of the dangers of use, by the untrained.

[monte55]

OK who's with me on the hot glue gun thing? ...unless it's a 240vac model


Remember....guns don't kill people.............bad wiring practices do

[fun4now]

just keep in mind even if youdo use 8 or 10 gage for your part of the new wireing, the part in the wall is still only 12 gage at best and possibly 14 depending on the circuit and the building ages who knows what might be in the wall. best thing to do would be get a maxsyar or dyn and run it of 120V at the dryer outlet as its likely to be the only thing on it and a 20 amp circuit. although it too could be almost anything one would hope it to be the best option. those welders were made for this situation. take advantage of it.

[FusionKing]

just keep in mind even if youdo use 8 or 10 gage for your part of the new wireing, the part in the wall is still only 12 gage at best and possibly 14 depending on the circuit and the building ages who knows what might be in the wall. best thing to do would be get a maxsyar or dyn and run it of 120V at the dryer outlet as its likely to be the only thing on it and a 20 amp circuit. although it too could be almost anything one would hope it to be the best option. those welders were made for this situation. take advantage of it.

Exactly

[storts]

Walker

We need to hook this guy up with the guy that built his own welder from microwave parts, that guy was a piece of work too. I think they would make a good pair, and perhaps he could make this guy some sort of power transmogrifier to get him the power he needs.

Your talking about Moody,,Good Kid!!!!!!!!Hes now working as a apprentis for a real electrican!!!!!!!!!,Jack

[storts]

Grump2

Yea and I know a guy in NY selling a bridge and another in NV selling ocean front property. My point? Anybody can sell a fool anything.

This came from the website: "The Quick 220TM power tap technically uses the fact that 220 / 240 volts AC is supplied to most facilities. The 220 / 240 volts is divided into 110/120 volt circuits for distribution within the building. Using standard 110 / 120 volt outlets and the Quick 220, the user can quickly identify and connect to the separated 110 / 120 volt halves of the original 220 / 240, restoring the 220/240 volt AC option without adding new electrical circuits or wiring to the building."

I'm no electrician but if I read this thing correctly (and tempraiser you would be wise to read it carefully also) without having 240 already in the building the blame thing won't work. And I'm sure some help desk jockey will tell you it will work. Just my 2¢.

Hey,My bridge is almost sold!!!!!!!!

[jcb]

"I need advice as to what CAN be done and what is too unsafe or impossible".

Tempriser,

If you haven't seen enough by now to answer your initial question, pls tell me you live in a single family dwelling and you are not going to put other peoples lives in your building in danger by doing this.