Syncro 200 question?

[tacmig]

Most of you guys know I'm a shop owner and have a couple of great guys working for me that really excel with tig (Thank God). And I have further said and as you may also know that, I suck at tig. In fact on a good day I would have to improve just to suck! However, and unless my guys are hiding out in this forum, I've kind of kept it a secret. As far as mig, stick and O/A are concerned, I consider myself the grand gasser. So on to the question, I have 2 tigs in my shop that I never use and want to get one to take home and practice with to show the boys I can tig in the event they don't already know I suck. Both my machines at the shop are Syncro's (250 & 350) and I guess they are water cooled. I'm considering getting the 200 (air cooled) which is O.K. with me as I won't be burning it up. Except for the fact the syncro is bulker, it appears to have all the features i.e.. AC/DC tig & AC/DC P-tig and of course the same with stick. it seems to have more features than it's brother the Maxstar and costs less. What am I missing here?

TacMig

[Fishy Jim]

The maxstar's are inverter machines. Portable, small = expensive.

[fun4now]

that about covers it. you have a little more adjust ability with the inverters but you can learn and produce excellent welds with the syncro200.
the biggest advantages to the inverters are input amp requirements, frequency adjust ability and usually higher pulse rates over the syncro200. with that said miller really stepped up from the syncro180 when they went to the syncro200 they did it up nice. great first welder if you can power it at home. i had to go inverter due to power available to me at my shop. 30amps was pushing it. no way i could have given 60+ amps to feed a transformer type TIG welder. the space savings was not as much as you might think after adding a cart the footprint is not much smaller, but its a lot lighter so easy-er to move around. i did make a large cart to allow for adding a cooler later, so the large size was by choice.

[c neck]

go with the dynasty 200 dx i love mine it plugs into any outlet
1 or 3 phase Great stick welder too and if u want to take to
the shop just put it in your front seat
its cost more but you will never be sorry you u paid the extra
money i got mine at cyberweld for $2500 no tax no shipping

[HMW]

I believe the Maxstar is only DC. If you never weld aluminum it would be good. Otherwise buy the Dynasty, just my opinion. I have the SW180, the SW200 replaced it, really nice.

[fun4now]

yep the max-star is DC only.(Dyn is AC-DC) given the choice of the max-star or syncro200 i would go syncro200 no question. syncro is AC-DC. i missed the part where you called the max a AC-DC sorry about that.
choice of Dyn 200 or syncro 200 ??
if $$ is not a problem go Dyn 200 . easier to power, way portable, added adjust-ability, way easier to move around the shop.

[Fishy Jim]

The debate between transformers and inverters has been played out so many times, but there are always people who seem to glaze over the obvious...

If you do primarily AL, or other AC processes: Inverter machine is the way to go.

If you do steel, or primarily run DC processes: Transformer is the way to go.

The DC arc voltage on a transformer machine is much higher than an inverter. That means you will get a better arc and more heat from the same "amperage." It translates to more "watts" in the puddle.

The wave shaping and balance options of an inverter blow a transformer away on AC. You pay extra for that with the inverter. You lose out on DC performance for it as well.

Blanket statements like "if you have the money, get ______" are asinine.

They wouldn't sell transformer machines if there wasn't good reason to be using one over an inverter. Transformers cost a lot to make (looked at copper lately?) and distribute (suckers are heavy, and miller has to pay shipping to the dealers). They also occupy a lot of production space with how big they are and such.

[fun4now]

my thoughts on if you have the $$ go dyn. is they are a better fit for the home shop IMO. space is usually an issue, power is shared with the house in most cases. so the inverter's lower draw is an advantage. but you are correct they are not the fit all applications answer. just essayer to accommodate on many levels. nothing against the syncro's, if i could have powered one it would be in my shop now instead of the TA-185. although if i had the $$ it would have been a Dyn.
it really comes down to what you want out of it and what you have to offer it. aether one is an excellent choice.

[tacmig]

Makes sense now!

The debate between transformers and inverters has been played out so many times, but there are always people who seem to glaze over the obvious...

If you do primarily AL, or other AC processes: Inverter machine is the way to go.

If you do steel, or primarily run DC processes: Transformer is the way to go.

The DC arc voltage on a transformer machine is much higher than an inverter. That means you will get a better arc and more heat from the same "amperage." It translates to more "watts" in the puddle.

The wave shaping and balance options of an inverter blow a transformer away on AC. You pay extra for that with the inverter. You lose out on DC performance for it as well.

Blanket statements like "if you have the money, get ______" are asinine.

They wouldn't sell transformer machines if there wasn't good reason to be using one over an inverter. Transformers cost a lot to make (looked at copper lately?) and distribute (suckers are heavy, and miller has to pay shipping to the dealers). They also occupy a lot of production space with how big they are and such.

Like I said in my original post, we have both the syncro 250 & 350 and I purchased these machines on the advice of my guys (who are the one's that use them). Power is not an issue for our 800 amp shop or my 600 amp home and I guess the reason my guys opted for the syncro's is because 80% of our work is steel (Railings and gates) Hence the transformer with more DC power than the inverter as you explained makes sense in our shop. Portability is not required either so I guess the syncro's are a good choice for the shop. As far as I'm concerned I think I'll go for the syncro 200 for my home garage as both portability and power are not a concern and I only play with Al.

Thanks all for the great feedback. a 25 year vet learning new tricks! I will learn to tig, I will learn to tig, I will learn to tig..........................

TacMig

[fun4now]

the sync200

with your O/A background you should pick it up fairly fast.
for me i learned more from out of position, so try a little fairly soon. i built a cart for my welder out of aluminum. its much easy-er to see what the puddle is doing. it will give you a better idea of how the hole thing is working.............or it could really tick ya off. so don't get stressed over it, you will find your grove and be a great TIG'er. just don't rush it. good luck, keep us posted.

[Fishy Jim]

James, The difference in input power for a Sync 200 and a Dyn 200dx is 3.4A at the closest comparable info from Miller. Also known as 9% higher draw - but with an arc voltage nearly double that of the dyn (so almost twice the heat for 9% higher current draw - that makes me think the SYNC is more efficient).

Now tell me where this huge savings in electrical requirements is? Sure, one could be run with 10ga and the other needs 8.

The sync has a higher duty cycle for the same output, and thus isn't sitting there idle nearly as much: I suppose that saves you on your electric bill. Is that what you keep boasting with the dynasty lust?

[tacmig]

It's just my patience?

with your O/A background you should pick it up fairly fast.
for me i learned more from out of position, so try a little fairly soon. i built a cart for my welder out of aluminum. its much easy-er to see what the puddle is doing. it will give you a better idea of how the hole thing is working.............or it could really tick ya off. so don't get stressed over it, you will find your grove and be a great TIG'er. just don't rush it. good luck, keep us posted.

I've done a little with our portable 150 (of course I sucked) and sought help here a while back and too much work has kept me from getting serious. One of the problems or rather one of my problems is that; I have to learn to chill out a bit. I do most of the heavy work and dig right in with the other processes and it's just faster and more simple for me. So I think you're right about not getting stressed and just be patient and it will come around.

Thanks for the help/support guys..

TacMig

[fun4now]

the syncro calls for a 60amp service the dyn calls for 30A. for a home that 60amps could well equate out to a needed service upgrade. as for the day to day bill, you would likely not see a difference worth mentioning at a hobby use level of weekend use.
i was referring to 30amps being essayer to come by.when i said lower draw is an advantage.I'm so very sorry if i have offended you and your transformers, but mostly just sorry i replied to you aggressive statement.( Blanket statements like "if you have the money, get ______" are asinine.) should have expected a pore attitude in return to any response. after all i did say it was IMO not miller spec's. you have yours i have mine and now we all have both.

[Fishy Jim]

Look at the miller specs for current draw. Don't look at what it says for a breaker. The breaker has to do with the dynamics of breakers and current spikes dealt with in transformers.

You're not offending me and my transformers. I really don't care what you prefer. If I did AL for more than just the occasional job here and there I would have an inverter along side my sync.

What gets me is the blatant disregard for the real core differences between the two. Saying one is better than the other based on what it takes to plug it in is stupid.