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Aluminum Tiging

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  • #16
    welding aluminum

    try this site.
    with the inverter tig machines Miller recommends lanthanated for the good arc starting and low burn off rate. The same sized electrode that is alloyed will carry more amps than the pure and last longer. The days of a balled electrode are coming to an end very quickly, it is just hard for some to let go of the "old ways".


    • #17
      ceriated not pure tung?

      shadetree said ceriated not pure tung when using inverter. Why? Looking at purchasing a Dynasty 350 just wondering about that tung thing.


      • #18
        I am completely sold on the Lanth Tung,, Also, The #1 problem I had with alum was a lack of good cleaning. You have GOT to get that oxidation off or alum will get really aggravating using the tig process. Forget a hand brush too. Use a stainless brush on a 4" grinder. Just my .02 cents worth.
        Webb's Welding and Repair LLC
        MM210 w/a 3035 spoolgun
        Syncrowave 250
        Spectrum 625
        Trialbazer 302 w/HF


        • #19
          I've done quit a bit of aluminum for the last few years with a SW180 and 250. Only used dynastys in demos, work very nice. Its all practice seems. Its easy to set up the mahines, the rest is You!....or Me! Somedays I do very good other days
          HMW [Heavy Metal welding]


          • #20
            if you e-mail diamond ground they will send you out a free sample of there preground tungsten. so you have nothing to lose by trying some other options. i recommend 2% lanthanated, 1.5% lanthanated , and 2% cerated. as a good choice for samples. all in 3.32 as its going to do the majority of most peoples work.
            try them see what you like. it's only a few minutes of your time invested and could make your life much essayer as well as your welds look better...... ok so it wont make you a better welder, but it will make it essayer for you to be one.

            lanthanated will give you better starts than pure will as well as cary more amps. i prefer 2% (blue) as it stands up to the heat much better than 2% cerated or 1.5% lanthanated .
            with an inverter you never want to ball the tung. grind it to a point then take the tip off for AC work, for DC leave the tip on is the recommended process.

            when doing AC with 2%lanthanated you grind it to a point then add a small flat to the end. this will become convexed on its own. not really a ball but start to round a bit, that's fine. i have had some cases where the tung. did not change at all due to the heat. after running at 160amp's for about 20 minutes the tung. looked just as it did when i started. that was the final straw and i have never goon back to any other tung. 2% lanthanated works excellent on AC & DC so i need not stock more than one type. this makes grinding both ends not a problem as i know all my tung. is 2% lanthanated.

            many transformer users are going to lanthanated with great results.
            better control, longer tung. life, less time spent grinding and changing tung. all this adds up to more $$ in the pocket and better looking work. so for those with transformers give it a try.

            many also use cerated 2% on there inverters, again for AC & DC although its not the best choice for AC as it can have a tendency to split on you . that said many still are very happy with it as an AC tung. and use it for both . i was happy with the results i got with it but preferred the 2% lanthanated. to each his/her own. use what you like the feel of.

            balling the tung. with the dyn200 is not a good idea and can cause damage to the unit. you don't need to do it and its way old school. you spent the $$ to go new school so why would you want to go back to old school ways.
            there are some excellent on-line dealers for tung. as well as some not so great. diamond ground is my first choice. (i'll see if i can dig up my link to there e-bay store) or you can go directly threw the site over the phone or threw e-mail.

            some thing you might try is a Little out of position work. i know you are thinking what the ----!!! i cant even do flat. but i don't expect you to do well at it. i just want you to put your work in the vice standing up and run a bead across it sideways. this is just to let you get a better idea of how the puddle is working. you will be able to see the puddle as it liquefies and tries to run. this is when you add filler to freeze the puddle to keep it in place. you can back off a little on the amps here or tilt back the torch toward the last bead. don't go crazy trying to get great results on this, its just a learning tool i used to get a better understanding of what the puddle was doing. after a little bit of time on the side go back to flat to perfect your style. you should have no trouble knowing you have good penetration after this exercise. or it may just frustrate you even more. i hope not. try to stay positive and don't rush it. TIG takes time and great TIG takes a life time. i'm still fairly new to TIG myself and am just trying to pass on a trick that really helped me. you might also consider a doing project. keep in mind it can be anything and it dose not have to come out great. after all you have a saw and a TIG welder , you can take it apart and do it again if you don't like it. i found siting at the welding desk welding lil tab's together boring and it drove me nuts. so i decided i would make a welder cart for my welder out of aluminum. this was a great idea as it gave me practice welding in all kinds of positions, over under threw, standing sitting even twisting threw. great fun with nothing to lose, after all i can take it apart and start over right. you may not be ready for a cart, but nothing wrong with making some thing small just to keep it from becoming boring or monotonous. its got to be fun for me and it is loads of fun.
            best of luck to ya.

            here are a few words on tung. prep from a member not often seen any more but definitely a great TIG-er. some advice he gave me on tung when i was starting out.
            wow sorry for the book, i attached a few pic's of my cart just for inspiration.and a little fun.

            I would stick to (2) tungsten sizes from what you are telling me. ALWAYS USE 1.5% OR 2% LANTHANATED TUNGSTEN WITH THIS MACHINE. I promise it will save you a multitude of headaches!

            Actually you can get by easily with only 3/32” diameter tungsten. Diamond ground can send you some samples with a 20 degree taper and a .020” flat. This should do everything from 30 amps up to 120 amps and maybe higher. For the 120 amps to max on the Dynasty 200DX the same 3/32” tungsten will work. Use a 35 degree taper and a .030” flat. This thicker taper and wider flat will handle the current better. The 1/16” will only help your arc stability “somewhat” in the 10-25 amp range. I don’t think it will make much difference to you when first learning, but is nice to have a back up.

            Let me tell about current capacity with lanthanated tungsten and the Dynasty inverters. I recently sold my D200DX to a friend and am keeping my 300DX Dynasty. I mainly use 3/32” 2% lanthanated tungsten. I weld aluminum, stainless, and titanium. I occasionally work with mild steel, but not often. Anyway, I use this tungsten for everything from 30 amps to 300 amps. I even run a 75% helium/25%argon mix on aluminum at 300 amps and the tungsten does not melt down. I do use the 35 degree taper and a .030” end flat for everything over 120 amps. I have the Diamond Ground Piranha II tungsten sharpener which makes it easy to adjust taper and end flat in a flash! You can also do it with a bench grinder by hand and eye. I did it for many years that way. A plain jane aluminum oxide wheel works wonders. Do dedicate a wheel to tungsten only. Don’t grind other material on this wheel as the contamination will play havoc on your welds!

            For starters on AC with aluminum use 110HZ, 72 EN balance, no pulse, and approximately 1 amp per .001” of material thickness. For example 1/8” =.125 inches or 125 amps.

            I hope this helps. By the way 3/32” 2% lanthanated does 99% of my work. I use the 1/16” diameter for the thin stuff as in 22 gauge for your work. I have used .010” thoriated for very specialized work such a .0040” hastealloy ribbon. Unless you get into something very special 1/16” and 3/32” will do all you will ever need to do. Let me know if I missed something.

            Attached Files
            thanks for the help
            hope i helped
            feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
            summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.


            • #21
              tiging alum

              You have to get the heat up so you can see the puddle turn white.Rule of thumb get your puddle twice the size of your rod.Dip the wire in the puddle drag the puddle about 1/8" and dip the wire again.One thing to practice is on a long pc of wire working your fingers so the wire move outward from your hand.After you learn it mark you line with soapstone on your table.put your hand on the end of the line try to make the wire travel down the line with out the tip moving off the line.after you get the step down try welding.If your going to weld 1/4 plate Use 1/8 pure tungstein the one with the green on one end.Most people want a ball on the end.This isn't always the best practice.If you start out with sharp pc you have more control over your heat,puddle. I set my reg on around 20 if indoors.I use to teach welding a tec collage for 3 years 2 of us had 60 students.I learned my son how to weld alum in 4 nights.He picked it up really fast.Some welders on here are rude and have no respect for someone learning.Sorry if I make any welder mad .I just call it as I see it on this web page.I hope this helps you it's a good practice tool.


              • #22
                welcome to the site.
                not trying to be rude, but he has an inverter, as such pure tungsten is not the recomended choice for the welder.cerated or lanthanated would be his best option.
                thanks for the help
                hope i helped
                feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
                summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.


                • #23
                  I stand corrected

                  You are correct For some reason I thought he had dx 250 Here . Selecting Tungsten Electrode (Wear Clean gloves To Prevent Contamination Of Tungsten)
                  Amperage Range - Gas Type♦ - Polarity
                  Electrode Diameter (DCEN) − Argon
                  Direct Current Electrode Negative
                  (For Use With Mild Or Stainless Steel)
                  AC − Argon
                  Balance Control @ 65% Electrode Negative
                  (For Use With Aluminum)
                  2% Ceria (Orange Band), 1.5% Lanthanum (Gray Band), Or 2% Thorium (Red Band) Alloy Tungstens
                  .010” (1 mm) Up to 25 Up tp 20
                  .020” (1 mm) 15-40 15-35
                  .040” (1 mm) 25-85 20-80
                  1/16” (1.6 mm) 50-160 50-150
                  3/32” (2.4 mm) 135-235 130-250
                  1/8” (3.2 mm) 250-400 225-360
                  5/32” (4.0 mm) 400-500 300-450
                  3/16” (4.8 mm) 500-750 400-500
                  1/4” (6.4 mm) 750-1000 600-800
                  ♦Typical argon shielding gas flow rates are 11 to 35 cfh (cubic feet per hour).
                  Figures listed are a guide and are a composite of recommendations from American Welding Society (AWS) and electrode manufacturers


                  • #24
                    why is pure tung not the best on an inverter


                    • #25
                      I've got the training and nothing bothers me more than to see some former mechanic/truck driver turned welder pulling an attitude when some guy just needs a little help. The guys are just trying to learn.

                      Even though a back ground of mechanic/truck driver hardly qualifies anyone as a expert[black wolf] you seem to be forgetting that even you where a novice once and I'm sure you asked questions too.

                      So I share the feeling of our fellow tradesman/hobbiests that you need to lose the attitude or go to another domain:


                      • #26
                        journeyman why is pure tung not the best on an inverter
                        the inverters work better with pointed tungstens. the pure will need more amp's to get the same job done and you lose the advantage of having an inverter. it can be used its just not the best choice, and balling it is bad for the welder. a lanthanated or cerated Tungsten ground to a point ( with or without a small flat) is going to give you the best results with an inverter.

                        kinda like saying you can run a dragster on just standard pump gas yea it could be done, but not to likely to see it on race day.
                        thanks for the help
                        hope i helped
                        feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
                        summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.


                        • #27
                          my buddy at work welds al using ac tig he sharpens the tungsten to a point and it keeps its point after being heated up every once in a while he has to resharpen it though. he gets great results. he uses al filler metal, not sure the thickness or current or anything. By the way he is certified and a state certified welder in the state of tn and virgina. just my 2 cents


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by El Guanche View Post
                            What Alloy of Aluminum? 6061
                            What Allow filler metal? the only one they sell around here.
                            What Diameter filler metal? 3/32
                            You mentioned in your first post you were welding 1/4" alum., I would probably be using 1/8" filler metal on 1/4" material. Practice and expermentation are your friends... oh ya and all of us on this great forum!
                            at home:
                            2012 325 Trailblazer EFI with Excel power
                            2007 302 Trailblazer with the Robin SOLD
                            2008 Suitcase 12RC
                            Spoolmatic 30A
                            2009 Dynasty 200DX
                            2000 XMT 304
                            2008 Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52
                            Sold:MM 251
                            Sold:CST 280

                            at work:
                            Invision 350MP
                            Dynasty 350
                            Millermatic 350P
                            Retired:Shopmaster 300 with a HF-251


                            • #29
                              thanks fun4now


                              • #30
                                Definitely Old School

                                I can say the only problems I have with tungsten are self induced by me. I sometimes dip the tung into the metal, or at one time or another run the filler into the tung, and other times run the tung into the filler as I'm welding along. A matter of coordinating the hands and feet I reckon. I have seen a lot of posts about tungsten and the lanth and cerat keep popping up.
                                So when I return to work I''l get a stick of each from the LWS and give them a try before we really get started. The machine I have is a Lincoln Squarewave 175. The only adjustable setting is current.
                                I may be old and crotchity but if you beat the dog enough I would learn to stay away from the stick. Merry Christmas.