7018 vertical advice

[swyman]

I can do some beautiful welding in all positions but vertical. I have done some nice looking vert in spots but there is NO consistency and I have tried a lot of different ways. I have had people so me but they cannot produce that perfect vert weld so I am asking you guys (and gals if any out there) what do I need to do to get that pretty vert weld? I have been running at usually 88 amps with 1/8" filler on 1\4" metal. I usually do a straight weave back and forth slowly going up and keeping a tight arc but find it difficult to keep the fire going. If I turn up the heat I get excess build up in the center and it looks like a giant glob of crap! I have researched Millers tips but can't get them to work right. If someone could show me a video I could do it no prob. I am very good at seeing it done and replicating it. I have good skills but lack the correct manipulation. My overheads look like my horizontals but am frustrated that I can't master the vert! Please help!!!!!!
Shane
Modern Metalworking L.L.C.

[Black Wolf]

http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/showthread.php?t=27797

Follow the link. It should answer all your questions. No point in re-typing everything again.

If you require further help. Let us know.

Later,
Jason

[swyman]

Here's the pics: the first is th evert and the other is hor.

[tanglediver]

You are too cold and you need some technique adjustments. I like to run that stick at about 118 amps uphill. Also, to reiterate, hold the edge as you burn in the crater- wait until the undercut fills, then move to the other side. Don't stop in the middle. Then, just keep the rod and work angle consistant and keep just ahead of the puddle, but never lose contact. Left side, right side, left side...watch the undercut, as it fills up, be ready to move as filler metal meets the edge of the crater.
Funny how time and action slow down when you are focused intently on that bead!

Your bead is even on the sides, keep doing that.

[Goodhand]

Can't tell for sure from the photo, but did you clean off the rust prior to welding? It appears that the bead is just lying atop the rust, and this would, also, explain why it is difficult for you to maintain an arc (iron oxide acting as an insulator). Suggest grinding away the rust, if you haven't done it, and try again.

[Canada]

im sure all of us here had trouble getting our vertical 7018 welds looking good. but as they said in other topics, PRACTICE,PRACTICE,PRACTICE. as soon as you start getting frustrated your welds go to ****. so keep you calm and try over, and over. Eventually it will come to you

[man of steel]

vertical up welds

swyman, the amps your set at (88) you said? thats the setting for 3 32 rod diameter i would suggest you try the 3 32 as you will have more control.The 1 8 rod should be burned from 120 to 140 amps and is probably too hot for the speed your doing. I would suggest just practice some more and go over the center fast and only pause on the edges, try playing with your heat and speed and just work on consistency , let me know how it wrks for yagood luck

[swyman]

I had a welding class tonight and had the instructor show me his vert. I was doing 2 things wrong.... well 2 things I instantly noticed. 1: as you guys said, too cold...2... incorrect rod angle. His method was pretty much a straight shot with no side to side and just let the rod burn in with nice looking results. Then he let me try it and mine was better than his!!! I think it was just luck since I could not see the puddle and was just trying to keep my speed and rod angle consistent. That is my biggest problem, I can't see the puddle while traveling uphill. I need to figure out how to position myself to see it.

Oh and on the vert pic, I did not do much cleaning up on the metal but I did this as a test to see how it would turn out since 90% of the welding in the field is done on dirty metal and 7018 that has never been in an oven which is another part of the problem. Thank you all for the replies and now I have figured out better technique I need to practice, practice, practice!!!!

[walker]

If you are doing 90% of your welding on dirty metal you are doing it wrong! Most good welders are going to hit it with a wire wheel or flap disk at a minimum. With todays modern power tools the only reason to weld really dirty metal is lazy. Joint prep is probably more important than whipping technique when welding. Try some shiny clean metal, then some old rusty painted junk using the same set up and see which one is nicer/better welds. You will find that the one with good joint prep went faster, is better looking and was easier to weld, every time.

[swyman]

Walker, you are 100% right and that is the way I was tought in the classes I took at Community College while going through my apprenticeship. It is pure laziness and I need to get back on track and do it the way I was taught. I did not know however that weld performance is faster on clean metal but I guess if you think about it, it makes sense! Thanks for the heads up!!

[turbo38t]

1/4" material 1/8" rod? Run stringers at 115-120 amps......no need for hardly any side to side movement....Dave88amps is way cold for 1/8"

[beamwalker]

that thin material you might try J s. or little U s. about 115-120 amps and stringers works very well. i dont have time to clean mine most of time but i run hot and slow enough to burn the garbage out. havent had one fail and my slag almost falls off. it splits and peels with lo-hy

[shorerider16]

1/4" material 1/8" rod? Run stringers at 115-120 amps......no need for hardly any side to side movement....Dave88amps is way cold for 1/8"

Depends if you are in Canada, or the U.S.A. Up here in Canada the schools and engineers lean towards running weave beads that are consecutively larger with each pass, while south of the border running stringers like you would in the flat or horizontal position seems to be the way to go. I have no idea why, and have never gotten a satisfactory answer from anybody I have asked.

If the person you are doing the welds for doesn't care, do it whatever way is easiest for you. However, there may be times when you are required to do it one way, so it wouldn't hurt to learn both.

[kcstott]

If you are doing 90% of your welding on dirty metal you are doing it wrong! Most good welders are going to hit it with a wire wheel or flap disk at a minimum. With todays modern power tools the only reason to weld really dirty metal is lazy. Joint prep is probably more important than whipping technique when welding. Try some shiny clean metal, then some old rusty painted junk using the same set up and see which one is nicer/better welds. You will find that the one with good joint prep went faster, is better looking and was easier to weld, every time.

So true. as with most thing it's 80% prep and 20% welding.

As for 7018 being wet that's a bozo no no. 7018 welds like s**t wet and unless you're a hot s**t welder it won't pass an inspection. When you stack the odds in your favor you will have good results. Clean well prepped base metal. Contamination free rod. Good comfortable position(relatively speaking). Machine set up correctly. etc. Remove one of those and you will start to have problems.
And if you want to weld dirty metal use 6010 "farmers rod" then the welds will look as good as they should, just like crap.

[turbo38t]

I use 1/8" rods on 3/8" and up....3/32" on 1/4". Once in a while I'll do stringers on 1/4" with 1/8" rods. There are several vert techniques but all resort back to knowing what the puddle is doing. It takes practice. Learn to keep the puddle just below the violent point and contrary to some belief don't move too fast, stick ain't fast. We just welded some 1.5" thick lock blocks on a crane (welded to 3/8" sheet and ran all 1/8" rod vert up with about a 3/8" tall weld. I used a nice side to side not climbing too much(small steps but moving faster with a very brief pause on the sides. I weld with my rod almost 90 degrees from the material. I run between 115 and 125 amps with 7018...I'll have to snap some pics tomorrow. Dave