a gate this size?

[welder_one]

i was asked to bid and build a gate that is drawn in the pic below. the gate is 17 foot long and 6 foot tall. the customer does not want it to split in the center. built out of 1 1/4 tube and 3/8 square stock, it will get pretty heavy, pretty quick. what would be a good idea to use for main post for this gate to swing on? customer asked that an automatic opener be installed at a later time. one idea that i had was to put the gate on rolls and have it slide along the rock wall, but then i will be getting into more money than what the customer is willing to go for, i'm afraid. any ideas on this, please.

[Winger Ed.]

It will be easier to figure what sort of post & possible support it'll need after you put a pencil to it and learn how heavy it will actually be.
Something I see around here on big gates is a (sometimes spring loaded) wheel on the far end to carry some of the weight. But it doesn't work well if the ground it rolls on isn't fairly smooth/level.

As far as the customer not wanting to pay over a certain amount:
That only limits how much gate he's gonna get.
Its his gate, not yours, and it probably never will be yours.
You can't work for free-- at least not very long.

,

[KBar]

That is one big gate to have it swinging freely. We have one at work, I believe it is 40' but it is split in two and is on rollers on either side to slide back along the fence. We have 3 rollers up top and 3 on the bottom. One person can roll it real easy as long as it is leveled well. We keep one side locked unless we are expecting deliveries, then we open both sides.

I cant see where there would be much of a cost difference using rollers versus anchoring a heavy enough post to make it a swinging gate. Of course Im not in the retail part of it either

[welder_one]

i guess i should rephrase. would 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 1/4 wall square tube 3 feet in the ground concreted into a hole 2ft x 2ft across. then fill the tube with concrete as well be strong enough to support the gate? or is it too much? after putting the pencil to it, i am looking at close to 400 lbs. keeping in mind that it is 17 foot across. i will put catches on the open and closed positions of the gate, so that the gate will be supported when it is open or closed, its just the swing in the middle that i am worried about.


i ruled out the sliding gate because i have nothing to tie into to mount rollers. i would have to add alot more steel and concrete and labor into the job to make that one work.


winger, the only time that i work for free is when my wife(the boss) tells me too...lol

[welder_one]

also a little off topic, winger ed, is the winger from playing rugby? if not the reason i ask is because i played rugby for little rock and one of the positions is a winger. i played tight side flanker

[Winger Ed.]

also a little off topic, winger ed, is the winger from playing rugby?

Nahhh.. I'm a peaceful sort of fella...........
I'd never condone or do anything as violent as playing Rugby.
(insert laughter here)


Back in the late 90's when I first got on the WWW. I joined a site made up of a bunch of old Marines. It was small, we all pretty much knew each other, and when members would travel around the country, we'd often stop & see each other. And, at different times, we have entertained groups of each other in our homes.

I had such a gathering once. I'm in Dallas. One guy on the board from Wash. state has a daughter here, another from Arkansas has a daughter in a suburb near here, another lives in Oklahoma, and so on. They were all planning to go see thier kids on vacation, and it got planned and timed out for several members to to all come to my house for a afternoon & dinner.

Anyway,
We had 3 'Ed's on the sight.
One 'Ed.' was one of those 'tunnel rat' hero types; and has been on a couple Discovery/History Channel shows- he didn't change nothin', another was a 'Ground Pounder' Grunt type-
who changed his screen name accordingly,
and me- the Avaition type Mechanic and Parachute Rigger.
The number of Marines in the Avaition part of the Marine Corps is fairly small.
----And the Grunts call us 'Air Wingers'

After a few posts asking, "Hey,,, which Ed. is this"?
And having to come back and say, "It's ME!!! the young,,,,, good looking one".

I changed my screen name to 'Air Winger Ed.', so we'd know who was who, as did the Grunt 'Ed.'. After a computer crash, when I got back online and had to re-register everything,,, I shortened it to 'Winger Ed.' Out of simplicity & habit, I just use it for my screen name everywhere I go. Some know what it means, some don't, most don't really care- and I'm quite comfortable with that. But that's how my screen name came to be.

Now, I do change my signature for different forums........ for example:
The one I use on the (river)racing boat site owned by a couple guys of that live in Southern Louisana just wouldn't be allowed here.

.

[tacmig]

Another gate post

Seems we just went through this on another post? In any event, this is what I do day in and out. 20' is pushing the envelope for single swing. Alum is the only way to go otherwise you will be looking at about a 4X4X3/8 rebar tapped post with about 2 yards of concrete and perhaps even a draw support. I didn't look at my engineering specs before posting this, but I just finished an 18' steel single swing with an end weight of 355 lbs. which transfered about 855 lbs to the top opposite side of my post. I use to think that my posts were over engineered, but when I sat with an engineer and he showed me transfer loads and swing loads I was floored. Also having a child riding the gate for kicks must be considered. Tell this guy to cough up a lung biscuit with some DRM (doe-ray-me) right in the middle and don't sell yourself short and let anyone take advantage of your good work..

[cat]

If they are going to add an automatic opener later, learn what kind, and where and how it will be attached. If you can, add a plate or whatever is needed for this-it will make things so much easier when they do add the opener. Cat
P.S. -I also vote for opening in the middle. Easier to work on and transport and install.

[Winger Ed.]

Seems we just went through this on another post?

Oh yeah,,,,,,,,,
And I'm sure we will again too.

So don't go away, we'll need your input and expertise on all of them.

(Har, har, har)

Seriously though,,,,
nobody ever brought up the reason for overbuilding a gate
to compensate for kids 'riding' them before...

Let's see--- a 100 pound kid on the end of a 17' gate means you have a
additional load of,,,, well,,, hmmm,,,,, 100 pounds on the end of a 'Class 1 Lever',,,
Ahhh,, or is it a 'Class 2 Lever'? help me out here,, I never did get much more than a 'C' in Math..

(That's what I mean,,,,,,, so please keep a eye on this stuff...)

.

[Jim-TX]

I've chimed in on several gate hanging questions on various forums so this may look repetitive to some. Unless there is no other option, I would never consider hanging a heavy gate on a single post. Yes, it can be done, but the post and hole had better be big and deep. One of the prior posts is probably correct. I'll take his figures since I am not an engineer, just one who figures it out and goes mostly by experience.

If I were doing this gate, I'd try like heck to figure a way to incorporate 3 posts on the hinge side. Obviously, one for the gate to hang on, one about 6 feet or more behind it, and the other one set about 90 degrees for support. The brace posts don't have to be full height, but the higher up on the hinge post the braces run, the better. A lot of time I go from near the ground up at an angle on the braces. My background is in ranch gates where it isn't normally a problem to add a supporting post. When hanging a gate, I like to go about 4 feet deep on the posts that are in line with the gate when it's normally closed. The 3rd, or side post, can be set a little shallower if it's on the side where the gate swings towards it since the stress on it is down. I know 4 feet sounds pretty deep, (5' would be better) but I think extra depth is worth more than a larger hole. In other words, I'd rather use 10 sacks of concrete in a 4 foot hole rather than a larger in diameter 3 foot hole.

Keep us posted on what you come up with.

[tacmig]

Lesson learned.

Oh yeah,,,,,,,,,
And I'm sure we will again too.

So don't go away, we'll need your input and expertise on all of them.

(Har, har, har)

Seriously though,,,,
nobody ever brought up the reason for overbuilding a gate
to compensate for kids 'riding' them before...

Let's see--- a 100 pound kid on the end of a 17' gate means you have a
additional load of,,,, well,,, hmmm,,,,, 100 pounds on the end of a 'Class 1 Lever',,,
Ahhh,, or is it a 'Class 2 Lever'? help me out here,, I never did get much more than a 'C' in Math..

(That's what I mean,,,,,,, so please keep a eye on this stuff...)

.

I'm with you on the math grade part and rely on area specs to help when I need it. As far as Jr. taking a joy ride on the gate, this happened to one of my customers gates. Although the free swingers were never brought to justice, the post was damaged to the point to where it needed to be replaced, the gate was fine!

[Winger Ed.]

. Although the free swingers were never brought to justice,

I was just joking around, but you did bring up a very valid point that should be considered in building one of these things.

Your's, Jim's, and too many others to mention- who make these little comments, and observations are what make this, and other such sights such a great asset for those of us that find ourselves jumping off into 'uncharted waters' from time to time.

.

[paulrbrown]

The comment about a 4x4x3/8 is right on, but 1/4 would do, that is what we use, buried to 4 feet or more. I do nothing but repair gates due to accident,vandalisim, or wear and tear. Steel gates are **** on the posts, and a 17' gate is very big......even in aluminum which is usually 2x2 frame with a 1x2 channel for top rail, second and third rails with 1" pickett, you will see the post leaning into the center. We like to install a little out of plumb going away from the opening so they will end up plumb after a short period. enclosed is a picture of 15 footers and you can see these posts leaning in. this is an aluminum gate also,about 1/3 the weight of steel, I will post other examples of post and gate findings if you like, hope this helps, Paul

[paulrbrown]

Here is an example of vehicle strike, probably a lawn trailer.....aluminum that is powder coated and painted can be real fun to clean and weld in the field with a 20 mph wind.....and oh yeah, it rains a bunch here too........

[paulrbrown]

Here is steel gate with a new post, it was hit and the 4x4x1/4 steel post broke at the ground, getting the 4 feet of broken post out was no easy task.....that is one heavy gate, 1000lbs or so. we have a small crane on this truck to lift these big girls....notice that there is no connection to the column, you risk pulling column down if you attach to a hollow one. also, you have to have the column engineered to be legal. what is interesting is that no damage was done to the gate when hit. Paul