MIG or stick on this one?

[HawkerMetalworks]

Heres some background... the middle tank weighs 17 tons, about 45 feet tall, and empty (and washed) of diesel. certified by the fire marshall and all. i have to build 8 brackets to weld to the top outside edge of the tank for the crane to pick up the tank, and lay it down in the area to the right in the picture. the crane operator is using shackles with a 1" dia. pin. i was planning on using 3/4" or 1" plate steel, making "T"s so i have some substantial welds on the tank (which is a 5/16" wall thickness)

I'm still perfecting my uphill stick, so i was thinking of running .045 in my suitcase, running a couple passes. any other opinions?

[Sonora Iron]

unless the guy who would have had to call me when it fell was under it if it DID fall...

You know what they say?
















If nobody died, it was a good pick!

[Desertrider33]

Im glad it worked out ok, assuming it did.

[HawkerMetalworks]

well, they moved it today (i couldn't get there) and i haven't gotten any phone calls, so i'm assuming it went well.





unless the guy who would have had to call me when it fell was under it if it DID fall...

[Desertrider33]

Hey, while we are on the subject, kinda. I thought fillet welds were supose to be 1.25 times the material thickness so two peices of 1/4'' plate would require a 5/16'' fillet. Or is it 1-1/2 times the thickness.

Just curious. I can't remember.

I was taught the true and technical way to measure the fillet size is by the throat depth (root to face distance @ an angle that bisects the joint angle), which should be equal to the thickness of the smaller of the 2 plates in the joint.

If the face of the fillet is flat or concave, then the legs would have to be a bit longer than plate thickness to reach minimum throat depth. If the face is convex, the legs would have to be at minimum equal to plate thickness. So yes, depending on face shape, the legs could need to be longer than plate thickness to reach mininum throat depth.

Since most don't have an accurate way to measure throat depth without a fillet gauge, and most put in their fillets with convex face shape, it's simpler to say make the minimum leg length at least equal to or more than plate thickness, even though that isn't absolutely technically correct. Maybe I should stop saying that! The problem there though is then I would have to explain throat depth and face shape each time. My replies on here are usually half of a novel as it is!

[Rig Hand]

fillet size

Hey, while we are on the subject, kinda. I thought fillet welds were supose to be 1.25 times the material thickness so two peices of 1/4'' plate would require a 5/16'' fillet. Or is it 1-1/2 times the thickness.

Just curious. I can't remember.

[Sonora Iron]

Sorry guys I drew that first drawing wrong. It will be clearer just showing one side.

[Sonora Iron]

Actual rigging is not on the lift plane.

Rough drawing of a flying W, you can use shackles in the bite of the 2-chokers, but I would not lay an object down like this, the shackles will destroy the chokers. This type of rigging is great for some lifts. I would use only two chokers to four padeyes, and use snatch blocks in the bite of the two chokers, that way you can lay it down no problem.

[HawkerMetalworks]

from what i can decipher from the scribbled notes and diagrams on the crane cut sheets that came along with the cut sheets on shackle size, they're using cable lanyards from the shackle to the crane hook.


if this makes any sense.

[Desertrider33]

8 anchor points.

8 is better than the 4 or 5 that I thought it would be.

Still, if it was my @ss on the line with this project, seriously, I would definately go back in there and fill those suckers up, both the t-joint and the plate to tank seam, and crank it up too!

Please, don't think I'm trying to ridicule you. Only trying to help.

On your shop work, your Millermatic 251 is capable of spray transfer with .035 wire. Pick up a bottle of 98/2 argon/oxygen so you can play with spray. If you have future heavy plate jobs and want to use solid wire and gas, spray it. The welds will go in alot hotter, wetter, deeper penetrating and better fusing, cleaner too. Must be used flat/horizontal only, no out of position. Anything over 1/4" should be sprayed rather than short circuited, with mig solid wire. Play around with it, you'll love it!

[Sonora Iron]

8 anchor points.

Wow! Would you please get a picture of how they rig this?
8-points? Makes me wonder if they’re not going with what is called a flying W!
Which in this case is about 100 x overkill!

[HawkerMetalworks]

8 anchor points.

[Desertrider33]

the pads welded to the tank i used 045 flux core, the eye plates i used 035 solid wire. the pads had two passes, the first was in a bevel. i was worried about the heat in the tank's wall, and compromising that. the fillet on the 3/4 plate is about 5/16. with the disperssment of the weight, each eye is carrying about 4000 pounds. those would still be a concern?

I'm not an engineer and can't tell you how many lbs of force in what direction your welded joint will hold. If 3/4" plate was the plate size decided on as sufficiently strong for the application, then your welds need to match the plate size, which they fall short of by alot.

Now if a 1/4" plate was decided to be sufficiently strong for the application but you used 3/4" because that's what you happened to have around, then a 5/16" fillet size would be strong enough, if applied hot enough to properly penetrate and fuse. The ones pictured don't appear hot enough to me.

I like that you beveled the plate to tank joint and put in 2 passes. I wonder how well the bevel filled in, if it penetrated through to the root and how good the fusion was. I wouldn't worry so much about compromising the tank wall by putting in more and hotter passes. There's a huge area there to soak up the heat and you're not going to be blowing through it.

I would go back and put in more passes till they're full.

I forget what was the number you decided on. How many of these eyes are being used around the tank?

[Sonora Iron]

I personally don’t have too much concern with the welds of the doubler plate to the tank, just on sure weld volume alone. My concern is the padeye to doubler plate! I forgot, the riggers plan on laying this tank down correct? If so the forces into these padeyes will change / rotate. If it were just a simple vertical pick, I would still have concerns, but not as much. I think you’re living dangerously here!

[HawkerMetalworks]

the pads welded to the tank i used 045 flux core, the eye plates i used 035 solid wire. the pads had two passes, the first was in a bevel. i was worried about the heat in the tank's wall, and compromising that. the fillet on the 3/4 plate is about 5/16. with the disperssment of the weight, each eye is carrying about 4000 pounds. those would still be a concern?