need help with stick welding up.

[fun4now]

i'm trying to learn to stick weld and have gotten OK at flat welds but decided to try welding up wile i had a few sticks left.
i'm still on my first 5 lb box of rod ( i have 40 left so i think i'm about 1/2 way threw it) so don't be too hard on me just give some pointers or some idea of what i should be trying to do?? i really need to see some one do it right before putting too much time into practicing the up part. my flats are not too bad. so a few pointers on how i should be moving the stick or amps changes needed ??
i don't have much material to work with that will work with the rod's i have so i been using some 3/16" diamond plate thats very rusty but i am doing the best i can to clean it up before welding on it. i decided to make a dinner bell out of it so i don't just waist the steel and i been wanting one anyway..


i'm using 1/8" 6013 rod's. a TA-185 (inverter) power source. set at DC 80 amp's. welding on 3/16" steel diamond plate, rusty but i'm cleaning it purity good. they are but welds, not a perfect fit they have some gap's up to about 1/8" max.


the first pic is the only one of the 3 tries welding up i did. the first 2 were so bad i feared breaking the camera so no pic's on them. yep thats right i have only tried this 3 times, but felt i was so bad i better figure out what i'm supposed to be doing so i don't continue to struggle to get it right when not doing it right to start with. i don't want to keep practicing the wrong way.

i tried doing little circles and a u weave as well as a strait line no weave up weld. none seem to be working out to great. so what should i stick to and try to make work ??
as i'm keeping this thing when i'm done i cleaned up the bad welds and went over them with a flat position weld in a U weave pattern to make it not so hard to look at after i painted it.
any help is greatly appreciated. don't worry about giving beginner pointers as i said i'm still very new at it and have never seen it done right so give me any hints you can think of.
thanks.

pic's
1) is my 3rd rod try at welding up.
2) is the weld grounded off to cover up.
3) is my attempt at a 2nd pass weld to make it look nicer.(done in the flat position)
4) is it painted and ready to make noise. well almost it needs a ring striker still.

[Fat-Fab.com]

Set the 60xx rod aside for now grab up some 7018 1/8" and set up a t joint. tack top and bottom.

Establish a puddle at the bottom and carry it up.

[phaxtris]

i dissagree, 6010/11 is much easier for a beginner to learn up hand than 7018

imo looks like you are trying to run a stringer, weave is required for most uphand

[jwsrep]

James,
Check your private messages.

[Darmik]

Hey fun4now

6010 or 6011 they are a good rod no doubt. but they have there place.But if you were in my class I would be teaching you 7018 1/8th first and 6010,6011 last.It's like moving the puddle up the hill same as wire "I think".the 11 and 10 rods are a fast freeze rod so a little whip motion is required with this one.O ya one more thing try a tee joint, A little easier for ya to learn.And move the puddle with the end of the rod making a full pause on each side.

Like a clock, tick tock tick tock ( side pause side pause side pause )Not moving to fast though.you will see the slag running down behind the rod not to worry it's okay.when you wire brush the weld you are looking for the under belly of snakes skin.If you get that you have a perfect weld.Good luck.

"And remember" We want pics We want pics We want pics

[Jolly Roger]

Not bad for a first try. Straight butt weld uphill is just about the most difficult weld there is.

I've been at this for 40 years and my first piece of advice to you is get rid of the 1/8 and get some 3/32. You cut the heat down and they are much easier to manage. I don't recommend you try 6010/6011 uphill until you have it down really well on downhill and flat. If you are running it properly the heat and dig are difficult to deal with when running uphill. It can be done, and done on very light material once you have the technique down. As one of the posters said earlier, set yourself up some T-joints and get that down. It is much easier than the butt joint. I don't know how heavy your plate is, but a bevel helps a lot when going up on the straight butt. No bevels on the T-joints. 7018 is the most common electrode used in uphill welding. There is a reason why. 6010/6011 is fairly brittle compared to 7018. It doesn't take stretch or vibration well. In fact if it vibrates the 10 class electrodes will fail. 7018 is second only to 7024 when it comes to elasticity of welds, unfortunately 7024 is strictly for flat work. It can be run slightly downhill, but there is a definite trick to it.

The biggest trick to using sticks is start with the small ones and work your way up, no matter what the position is. I know it is trite, but you have to learn to walk before you can run.

[fun4now]

thanks all

jwsrep, reply sent.
to the rest thanks. i'll look into getting some smaller rod for the next 5lbs.
looks like i'll be getting some help in the next day or so.
seems like every one has there own opinion on what rod is best to start with ??? so thats helping keep me lost.

i will post more pic's as soon as i get some more rod burned up. if i get 3/32" rod what thickness steel should i be working on ???

[man of steel]

learning to weld uphand

youve got yourself some good advice from the guys,i would suggest going to the 3/32 7018 rod and dont be afraid to play with your amperage.From the pics i saw, it looks like your runing a little cold,but i would recommend trying a zig zag weave and pause on the edges, the centre of your joint will fill itself.The most important thing is practice and dont be afraid to try different tecniques and amperage settings ,good luck and keep it up, rome wasnt built in a day.

[welder_one]

In my experience, i have found that the 6013 rods really like to be run downhill, a very small and slight circular motion works the best. as for the pics it looks like you are running a little too cold. 3/32 would be a great deal easier to handle. the important thing to watch out for with 6013 rods is to watch your "colors" what i am talking about is the different shades of red. the slag will be a lighter and brighter shade than the parent metal. be sure to keep the darker colors flowing together. also the 6013 likes to have a very slight backhand drag, almost perpendicular to the weld (about 2 to 5 degrees). the 7018 does not like to be run downhill because of slag inclusions. it can be done but you have to have the heat so high and travel speed up that you dont get a very good weld aesthetically or structurally. uphill 7018, you take about the width of the rod you are using, and start your puddle. move sideways about the width of the rod, now move back across and slightly up. now pause to let the puddle catch up, and move across and up again. have the rod tilted upwards into the puddle about 12 to 20 degrees. the finished weld before slag removal will look bad, but after you chip the slag should look flat a slight braided bead and strong. the next thing i can say is to buy more rods and practice. the 6010,6011 rods will run downhill almost the same as the 6013 rods just little differences.

[fun4now]

so should i be learning on DC or AC ?? it seems to me AC is essayer ? but learning the hard way would make the AC no problem later ? what do you all think AC or DC and why?? which is essayer in your opinion??

thanks for all the help.

[swamp donkey]

Ive always found that doing verticle up on DC was the easiest, but not to mention all those machines were kinda new and i was using 7018 or 6010.all the AC machines i used were ancient (older than me) and using 6013. One was a 40 year old forney arc welder where you plug the cable into the amperage you want. Although come to think about it i have run uphand with 6013 on both ac and dc and i'll say that neither of them turned out good at all, way easier with 7018 on dc

[welder_one]

dc reverse or dc stinger positive. ac is messier. now some old timers believe that if you didnt weld it on ac it didnt get welded. dc reverse is pretty much anything for smaw welding. although there are a few circumstances that require ac welding with a stick. grain augers being one of them, the parent metal will get magnetized by the grain and when you try to weld on dc the magnetism will actually blow the puddle out and be everywhere that it is not supposed to be. this is where ac comes in. for now, i would use dc reverse

[Darmik]

Stick welding

Hey fun4now you'll want to be on DCEP.the only time you'll want to be on DCEN is when you are doing roots with 9018-B3 then you switch back to DCEP to finish. AnywayDCEP for all your stick welding needs.6013 is for sheet metal like furnaces and that kind of thin stuff I love it for that kind of work very good rod. Anyway 7018 1/8th DCEP please. When you first start welding school over here in Vancouver you will start with 7018 1/8th on DCEP period.

"why"! Well you'll find that there's no arc wonder, the puddle stay's fluid, the stick to puddle distance is easily controlable. It is not unstable, easyer to start; the sound is nice, crisp, clear and clean. And it is nothing like wire, where you have to keep going because you always have wire coming out. Stick is more fore giving than wire. You’ll need 3/8 tee joints. Just keep in mind though you cant just weld and weld and weld what will happen is the plates will get way to hot and when you are doing up hand the weld wont stick to the metal you'll end up with grapes. Sometimes you can keep turning the heat down but only so far though until the weld becomes ineffective.

Now I have not tried the AC way of stick welding so I could not comment on it until I read about it then try it sorry.

[Smokey_]

well this is the hardest positon to do in SMAW is vertical up. 7018 1/8 imo is the best to learn with some metal tee's. U need to do a small weave in corner just moving over barly to each side until u see the puddle of metal (not flux) on side of ur rod then move quick over to other side and repeat. This weld took me 2 weeks non stop practice to perfect for a bend test. with the 7018 1/8 i run at 110 amps, although u kinda have to find the right setting for your own machine and material ur welding. I beleive that you only want bead to be 5/16 in width so u wnat to keep it pretty tight when weaving up.

[fun4now]

jwsrep stopped by this after noon and showed me what it should look like and gave me a better idea of what i should be doing and a new way to hold the stinger. and a hand full of 7018 1/8". i picked up 5lbs of 3/32" 7018 also and should ge a good bit of practice in. i don't know how long the 7018 will last so i better burn it up quick. he also dropped me off some steel stock to burn on thats much thicker. i gotta get over thinking the slag is my bead drooping all over and just do the weld and see what it looks like when its done. my first stick worked out purity good but i was thinking it was going to be horrible before the slag came off.
tomorrow i have to go put tires on the wifes car (she is on a spare and some slicks) so i don't know if i'll get a chance to play much tomorrow as i have to go into town to get the tires so thats 2Hrs burned in transit. but sat. i'll get some practice in and get you some pic's to look at.
i have a pic of my first try just to show i'm not afraid to show the bad as well as the good. this was the clearest pic i could get.
so go easy on me i'll get better. this weekend i'll be burning a lot so with some luck we will see some improvement.

thanks for all the help.
i'll keep the progress posted.