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MM210 w/ 3035 Beats L255C in Real-World Test

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  • #16
    Kevin,

    Appreciate your setting the record straight regarding changes to the MM212.

    Think the original comment came from a "miller insider" regarding why the MM212 weighed (per specs) considerably less than the MM210.

    Regardless, it's good to hear that Miller saw fit not to "futz with" one of the best mig welders on the market.
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    • #17
      Regardless, it's good to hear that Miller saw fit not to "futz with" one of the best mig welders on the market.
      i'll 2nd that as its on my to get list. odds are good the 252 will be more than i will need or have $$ for. the MM210 has been on my need to get list for a wile and there was a small amount of concern over the 212. but incoming reports support the above statement. its still well spoken for.
      thanks for the help
      ......or..........
      hope i helped
      sigpic
      feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
      summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
      JAMES

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      • #18
        Kevin,

        Does Miller use aluminum wire in any of their transformers ?? I know they have been using aluminum wire in power transformers for many years but I don't know about welding transformers. Do you know when the practice started and with which manufacturer.

        I can't see how an aluminum wound transformer could change the arc. I can see how a filter ( I think your term is stabilizer if this is the same thing ) could have a profound effect on the arch and these can be tailored by design to certain needs. And as everybody probably agrees, Miller has the best handle on that for sure.

        The biggest differences I see in the two wires is conductivity, tensile strength, and expansion coefficient. To take care of the conductivity difference, a larger diameter wire is used when using aluminum and that takes care of the tensile strength as well. The larger diameter wire negates heating effect and electrical losses. That leaves expansion coefficient and that is, I think, how aluminum got such a bad reputation to begin with. Back in the
        70's someone had the bright idea of using aluminum in Romex wire. This is the type wire used in small appliance and lighting loads in residential construction. Problem was the aluminum, because of the greater expansion coefficient, became loose at the connections at the receptacles. The wire broke if the homeowner was lucky, if it didn't, it got loose and heated up causing a fire. If I remember they didn't make the proper allowances for the difference in conductivity as well, aluminum being only roughly 60 percent or so as conductive as copper. When houses began to burn down the learning curve on aluminum wire and aluminum connections became quite steep. They don't use aluminum wire in Romex anymore but almost all residential construction uses aluminum on the incoming service, heating equipment , and service for the stove. And if the price of copper keeps going up they will probably start using it in Romex again real soon.

        The connection problem with aluminum power transformers has been solved. They simply take the end of the wires from the transformer and tig weld them to a flat aluminum bar where any type of connection can be made, aluminum to aluminum or aluminum to copper. There are also compounds used with aluminum connections and connectors that take care of the problem as well.

        So I have some questions if anyone can answer them.

        1. How long have they been using aluminum in welding transformers.

        2. how many manufactures are doing it - is Miller one, what models. Is it possible some have been using welders with aluminum transformers and didn't know it and are telling friends they are the best welders around.

        3. And the question I would like answered most of all. How does an aluminum transformer affect the arc. The why part is what I would like to know . Htp makes the same statement about their copper transformers.

        The last question I would really like answered because I don't want to spend a lot of money on a welder I find I am not satisfied with and have to brood for many years because I made a bad purchase. I am getting too old for this kind of stress

        Thanks
        sigpic 6010
        If I had know I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Miller Kevin View Post
          Hello everyone,

          I just wanted to clarify a few things with regards to aluminum vs copper in the Millermatic 212.

          When designing the new Millermatics we talked to alot of customers and one of the things mentioned many times was "we love the arc, don't change it". Because of this the Millermatic 212 has the same transfomer and stabilizer design as the Millermatic 210. We did add some nice features and put it in a new case but the arc perfomance and that same reliable field proven design are still there.

          If you noticed the weight differences on the spec. sheets this is because the Millermatic 212 was weighed without the shipping kit and the Millermatic 210 was weighed with the kit. They are in the process of having the weights on the spec. sheets changed to include the shipping kits.

          If anyone has any questions on the new units please feel free to ask away.

          Thanks,
          Kevin
          (920)735-4505
          [email protected]
          Kevin,
          I know this is an old thread, but was surprised yesterday when I went to Miller's website and found that the 212 now has autoset. Someone from a Jeep board looking for a welder was very impressed with my welds and asked me what machine made it (I have a mm210) and I told him the 212 was an identical machine from a welding stand point. I had to retract my statement as I noticed it now has variable voltage.

          You had mentioned, and many people on fabrication boards all over the Internet that the customers prefer the amazing arc that the 210/212 machines produce. There's something about a quality tapped machine. It's like the argument of analog record vs. DVD's, or tube amps vs. electronic amps. On paper they seem superior, but they seem to lose a certain depth in real life.

          Does the 212 now have the arch characteristic similar to the 252? The 252 although an amazing machine, tends to have a softer arc compared to the 210/212. For short circuit welding a much prefer the sharper arc of the 210/212 over the 252 which is why I exclusively use my 210 for this purpose.

          I'm getting very nervous here. I'm afraid that the world has lost the amazing arc characteristic of the 210/212 with the release of autoset and infinite voltage. You may have done what in this thread you said was a priority of Miller's not to do... mess with a good thing. I can't say for sure since I haven't welded with a new 212 autoset... but if the characteristic is closer to the 252 then in my opinion you've lost a bit of the 210/212's magic.

          Mike

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          • #20
            Mike,

            The Millermatic 212 Auto-Set may have an infinite voltage control but you will not be disappointed with the arc. I too have always liked the qualities of the tapped arcs but the newer infinite controlled units are right there with them.
            Kevin Schuh
            Service Technician
            Miller Electric Mfg. Co.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Miller Kevin View Post
              Mike,

              The Millermatic 212 Auto-Set may have an infinite voltage control but you will not be disappointed with the arc. I too have always liked the qualities of the tapped arcs but the newer infinite controlled units are right there with them.
              I'm going to have to get down to the local LWS and give one a test drive. I'm curious the feel of the dial when setting the voltage. I just keep imagining that the knob will be very very sensitive as you have a limited sweep of the dial to go from it's lowest, to highest setting. If you have the same sweep as a smaller machine but this machine has more of a range of potential voltage range a given amount of movement on the dial would have to give a higher change. I'll have to try one.

              Mike

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              • #22
                Mike,

                The unit has plenty of control, you can fine tune it in just like the Millermatic 252's.
                Kevin Schuh
                Service Technician
                Miller Electric Mfg. Co.

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