vs wire feeders on cc machine

[memphis]

hey yall,
I have an older miller legend 200 ac/dc CC ( constant current ) welder generator without the 14-pin. I also have an older 110v powered miller wire feeder that I pulled off my old cv welder. I was going to try putting this wire feeder on my legend, but folks seam to sugest that I have to have a voltage sensing wire feeder. Does anybody know what that whole voltage sensing deal is? and how is it different from my wire feeder? I also hear that mig (gmaw) on a CC power source is much different that a CV source, is it really that much harder, i've been mig-ing for more that 5 years now and I aim to take my show on the road. Thanks for the help.

-memphis

[DDA52]

Memphis, you will be needing a cc/cv capable wire feeder, voltage sensing only. That is for a feeder that will operate off of the welders CC output. That is the only way it will work with that type of feeder. Examples of that type are the Miller 8 & 12 VS, Linc LN-25 and a few others. They plug into the units stinger lead and get their power directly from the welder. They also have a voltage sensing clip that allows the unit's motor to work on the detected current.

Now, you say you have a 110v feeder...is it a remote feeder or is it a stand alone unit that will plug into the wall and work without the welder? What model is it exactly? If it is a remote feeder, it will not work without being a voltage sensing unit. If it is a control cable type, it will need the same type of cable connection that the CV unit has and the same control cable. It is just a different type that will not be compatible with a CC unit.


Is your welder a Legend? or an AEAD 200LE? Seems like I remember the Legends always being CC/CV. Not so for the 200LE's.

CC MIG is possible, but limited. It will work in spray transfer and globular transfer, but short circuit will be extremely difficult if possible at all. My Bobcat 225G and 8VS combo would not short circuit on CC at all. It ran a very mean globular, spray and excelled on flux core, innershield and outershield.

[memphis]

My machine is a legend 200LE. I don't have a model number but when the wire feeder was hooked up to the old CV machine, It would have one plug for the power that plugged into a duplex 110volt outlet, another plug that went to a CONTACT plug and a third heavy cable that went to the CV power sorce. My understanding was that if I plugged the power cord into the right 110 volt outlet( the one that active while welding), left the contact plug alone, and ran the input or heavy cable to the dc post, it might work. Any ideas?

[DDA52]

Well, you would have nothing to loose, that's for sure. It either will or won't. The contactor wire could be problematic, though. It all depends on how it is wired up. Some use the contactor to actuate the drive motor and control the gun hot or cold, some just use it to kill the power to the gun while not welding. Miller has a couple of external contactor units that might work as well. Anything is possible.

You could also call Miller and check with Engine Drive Applications. See what the Miller folks say...won't cost anything but the phone call. You'd just need to have model numbers of both with you. I have called them on many occasions and it is always a big help. 1-800-4 A MILLER is the number.

[memphis]

thanks, will do

[jwsrep]

Perfect posts DDA.
The only thing I can add is that you can have a contactor installed on the wire feeder and then plug your 110V plug (wire feed motor) into the duplex on the machine. I did this for a customer that wanted to run a push pull MK Cobra off his Bobcat 250 NT.

It seems a little extreme measures to be able to achieve mediocre to crappy results. As DDA mentioned you will not be able to achieve a short circuit transfer only spray/globular. If you were going to be running strictly flux core wire on plate heavier than 1/4" I would say it would work okay.

Your better off to buy a CC/CV engine drive unit w/ a VS feeder that can better suit your needs. With the Legend you do have one of the smooooothest running SMA welders on the market.

[Jolly Roger]

I seem to remember Miller having a control unit for hooking a wire feeder to a cc machine (only works with certain feeders and requires 110 AC). I know in the latest catalog they have a voltage sensing feeder very similar to the lincoln ln-25. Both very pricey, but will run off any DC power source you hook them up to apparently.

[DDA52]

I think the control you are talking about is the PSA-2. It allows the use of a 24v feeder with a welder that doesn't have the 14 pin connection.

[Jolly Roger]

Could be, it's been awhile since I was looking at it.

[memphis]

something a little different....

Hey yall, the guy that gave me the wire feeder got greedy and took it back, so I came up with a new plan. The front of the machine has a 21 amp 240 Volt plug on it. I was out and a local tractor supply shop had a complete hobart 187 mig setup for about $650. Since the unit pulls 20 amps I bought it and thats what i use for mig now. The little thing is heavy but it does good. Anything to thick for it to weld is better done with stick anyways. It think. So thanks for the help. Now I just have to see if I can do TIG with this machine. The machine had a optional remote plug, so i'm thinking that i might be able to track down parts and get it setup. you never know. Any ideas? I'm open for suggestions.

[BWS29128]

I've got a buddy that ran into a problem similar to yours: older Bobcat 225 was CC only and he has a Hobart (OLD!!! Hobart) spool gun and contactor box. He somehow took the contactor box apart (looks sorta like the SGA100) and bypassed the contactor switch and worked a always-hot connection into the deal. Now, whenever his MM210/SG3035 rig is out, he hooks the Hobart SG directly to the + post on his BC225 and all works well.....only thing being is that the wire is ALWAYS hot as long as the EDW is cranked and the contactor box is plugged in.

He knows way more about electricity than I do so I would never attempt it, but I've thought about buying a 3035 and SGA100 and asking him to "rig" mine the same way with my Hobart Champion 10,000.

Not that it matters anymore for you...