spray welding

[Bert]

ace, I'm just wondering...did you try it with more power so that 1" of spray would last longer?
thanks for your testing and input! Let mem know what happens!!!
Oh, and what was your settings at?
bert

[ace4059]

just to let everyone know, I tried spray with 100% argon and it did NOT work. It would start ont in spray the after an inch or so it would go back to globular trans. There was lots of undercut and the weld bead was high and narrow. (I tried to weave the gun for tie in but it would go into glob trans when I did that) Anyways do you move the gun only in a straint line or shoul I weave it for tie in???
Also would the lincoln Pm215 (has 250 amps) be any different for the gas usage?

[Bert]

Bareback Jack,
THANKS DUDE! I'll try it this weekend !!!!

[Danny]

I read through here briefly, so It may already have been covered and I missed it.

What Is the reccomended gas for a MM210 to spray arc in. 90Ar/10Co2, 93Ar/7CO2 or 98Ar/2O.
I read someone say that the BEST to spray in is the 98/2. but will the MM210 spray in the other two gasses as well? (I known other high amp welders will spray in all three, but does the mm210 have enough amps to spray in the 90/10?)

Is .030 reccomended or can I use .035?

What a good starting point for the settings (amps and wire speed).
I think that all my questions for now.
Thanks you,
Ryan

To spray arc with the MM 210 stick with a 98/2oxy. The unit really doesn't have the top end voltage needed to spray arc well with 90/10 CO² or 92/8CO².

With 98/2 the 210 will spray arc an .030 or .035 solid wire. I prefer the .030 for its higher current density. Meaning at the same output power level , the .030 offers the potential to produce a deeper penetrating weld. On the 210 , the only advantage an .035 solid wire offers over an .030 in spray transfer mode is the ability to produce the weld bead quicker. For the recreational weldor, who doesn't weld everday , I personally don't look upon this as an advantage, because it gives you less time to read the weld puddle.

With 98/2 voltage tap #7 and the wire speed around 75- 80 with an .030 will get you started. The amount of wire speed need is going to depend on your input voltage. I'd start out at 80 and reduce if needed. With 98/2 there is also some spray arc range available with Tap #6 too. Sorry can't remember a wire speed range to get you started with on this tap though.

[ace4059]

I read through here briefly, so It may already have been covered and I missed it.

What Is the reccomended gas for a MM210 to spray arc in. 90Ar/10Co2, 93Ar/7CO2 or 98Ar/2O.
I read someone say that the BEST to spray in is the 98/2. but will the MM210 spray in the other two gasses as well? (I known other high amp welders will spray in all three, but does the mm210 have enough amps to spray in the 90/10?)

Is .030 reccomended or can I use .035?

What a good starting point for the settings (amps and wire speed).
I think that all my questions for now.
Thanks you,
Ryan

[Bareback Jack]

Sorry it takes so long for me to reply, I'm rodeoing allot right now, and I'm gone for a couple weeks at a time.

Yes, 100% Argon is fine. Sheilding gas mixtures are used for a variety of reasons. One is that an expensive gas is mixed with a ceaper gas to lower the overall cost. Another is influence of the weld puddle and arc characteristics. Helium is often added to increase penetration, oxygen as a stabalizer, CO2 because it's cheap. There are advantages and trade offs with all of them. For example, 100% Argon gives a very attractive bead, but its not as cheap as CO2, but CO2 gives allot of splatter....

[wireburner]

I want to try this but ,the local welding supplies store is closed darn ! Like Bert said can you do it with 100% Argon?

[Bert]

Everyone is mentioning Argon rich environment. Can spray welding be done with 100% Argon?

[Bareback Jack]

I just wanted to chime in to clear a couple of things up here. Axial Spray transfer is utilizes higher voltage settings with surface tension to achieve several nice results. As we saw earlier, a really nice bead is one result. Also, greater deposition, deaper-more complete penetration, and faster travel speeds are achieved. Due to these factors, with proper tecnique, a smaller HAZ is created also. As elluded to earlier, a sizable machine is needed to push past the globular transfer into spray transfer, and a change in gas is also needed. Spray transfer does need a very rich argon environment, with a theoretical maximum CO2 content on 18%. I assume this is why I see C18 all the time. 2% oxygen is commonly used as a stabalizer in the sheilding gas, but as this is a reactive gas, the amount must be limited. A tri mix of Argon, Helium, and oxygen is common also in various amounts (90,7.5,2.5 etc...) Cost is a factor to consider though, as CO2 is cheaper than other gases. For most hobby weldors, this is not a concern because of the relatively small amounts of sheilding gas used. For large shops and manufacturers, this can be an area of great study to find the most economical gas or mixture for that partucular application. Due to this, some shops are going straight CO2. Even with the added costs of that gas (splatter and cleanup...) it is cheaper in the long run for them. No spray in that case though.

Much like spray transfer, pulsed mig uses very high voltage settings. The difference is that the machine cycles between a high voltage and a very low voltage setting. A short circuit method is still used for the actual metal transfer, but with a "cooling" low voltage rest in between. Esentially it is like spot welding 60 or so times a second. This also produces really attractive beads, and a reduced HAZ. Lots of literature is available about pulsed MIG that explains the process very well and every brand says that their's is the best...go figure.

I've been away for a while and just read this post. Hope this adds some light on this topic.

[fun4now]

I've been looking for a reason to upgrade to a new, shiny welder
your suposed to have a reason to upgrade.
dont tell my wife that, you cant beletting that kind of info out on a public forem. you could get a lot of us in truble with the wives with statements like that.
aaaaaa, shiny and new, good.

[Anti-GMAW]

I always use oxygen instead of co2 for spray unless welding on SS using spray transfer. I generaly try to keep the oxygen content under 10% if possible.

[garybdavis]

Gary, since your unit is a MM 35, stick with the 75/25 you've been using. The MM 35 was designed to be a short circuit transfer unit with CO² or 75/25. It isn't capable of outputting the voltage and amperage needed to be a useful spray arc unit.

Here's some info you and Bert might find interesting to read. http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/MIG_handbook/592mig4_1.htm

BTW, for the page on the ESAB site that I have linked, use the arrows at the bottom of the screen to scroll through the different pages.

Sorry guys, I own an ESAB Migmaster 250 along with a MM 210, so I visit there website too.

Danny,

Thanks for the link. Good info. I've been looking for a reason to upgrade to a new, shiny welder.

[Bert]

Danny, James is right ! Long as the info is all good, doesn't matter which company it comes from. I know a weldor that always bought ESAB plasma cutters. Does all kinds of stuff with it he says others won't.
thanks a lot Danny!!!!!!!

[fun4now]

so I visit there website too

Sorry guys, I own an ESAB Migmaster 250 along with a MM 210, so I visit there website too.
good info is good info no matter where it comes from.

[Danny]

So if you want to try spraying, you crank up the voltage and change out the bottle? Do you have to switch back to a 75/25 Argon/CO2 mix to go back to regular MIG welding or should you just switch to a 98/2 Argon/Oxygen gas setup for all MIG welding?

Should you use 98/2 Argon/Oxygen or 90/10 Argon/CO2? I guess I really don't understand the reason behind the different gas mixes and why one is better than the other in certain applications.

I've always run the typical 75/25 Argon/CO2 gas mix for years, but never tried anything else. I only weld on plain old mild steel.

Gary, since your unit is a MM 35, stick with the 75/25 you've been using. The MM 35 was designed to be a short circuit transfer unit with CO² or 75/25. It isn't capable of outputting the voltage and amperage needed to be a useful spray arc unit.

Here's some info you and Bert might find interesting to read. http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/MIG_handbook/592mig4_1.htm

BTW, for the page on the ESAB site that I have linked, use the arrows at the bottom of the screen to scroll through the different pages.

Sorry guys, I own an ESAB Migmaster 250 along with a MM 210, so I visit there website too.