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  • neophyte
    replied
    Originally posted by Bob Kraemer View Post
    If the cable is 12/2 w/gnd you are allowed to identify the white conductor with a permanent marker or black tape to be used as phase conductor only if it part of a cable assembly IE: romex, MC cable BX etc!
    If the wires are installed in conduit you are not allowed to do this, with the exception being the conductors are over #6 awg.
    But as the others stated the inspector has jurisdiction over what the code says.
    Thank you Bob. You confirmed what I thought......
    I picked up a copy of Wiring Simplified 41st Edition today....which by the way is based on the 2005 NEC. Sure enough on page 51 it states, " white can be used for ungrounded purposes when it is part of a cable assembly brought to a switch or for a 240-volt load, but even here it must be reidentified as other than white at all visible points and at termination."

    Also finally talked to the electrician here that installed my 200 amp service. His comment?? "The guys an idiot" ....... hmmm

    I also understand what harcosparky is saying about LOCAL code. We are talking Ottumwa IA here not New York City ..... I have read the local code ...all one page of it and it says nothing about the reidentification of conductors. I don't see how using 12-3 instead of 12-2 would be considered an upgrade to the code....especially when that just leaves one conductor sitting in the box. Your correct though.....the inspector non the less does have the final say.

    Thank you again Bob for shooting from the hip and talking straight.

    Leave a comment:


  • harcosparky
    replied
    " reidentifying " a wire with tape, marker or whatever won't make ot past a code inspector.

    Let's not rehash the GND/NEU thing here. In a single phase service both GND and NEUTRAL are the same thing, physically and electrically.

    Simply put he wants to use 12/2 and the inspector wants 12/3.

    He could use 12/2 but it wouldn't be up to LOCAL code.

    Keyword LOCAL as NEC is a guide. Local gov't can demand more.

    I would say if you were not being inspected 12/2 would work -IF- the bare gnd conductor is of the same wire gage.

    It makes no sense to me ... in my house a 240V Dryer has a 3 wire hookup, in a new house it is 4 wire. The new codes demand a Red / Black / White / Green(bare) wire. When in fact on single phase wiring the Green & Whites are tied together at the power company transformer and your house.

    Oddly when you read the NEC code they tell you ... " If you move a 3 wire appliance into a new installation you will have to have a 4 wire power cable installed "

    Leave a comment:


  • leeschaumberg
    replied
    Correct 3 wire to run

    1 black wire - hot or 120 V
    1 white wire - negative which is circuit ground
    1 uninsulated or bare wire - building ground

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Kraemer
    replied
    Originally posted by bretsk2500 View Post
    ain't that the truth... one of the state inspectors here forced the electricians to completely rewire a ticket booth across the driveway from a building we were putting up at a local HS. the pisser is that the ticket booth had NOTHING to do with our work, no power for it came from our building. the guy was famous for that kind of ****. grrr.
    That would be considered an "EXTRA" to the GC

    Leave a comment:


  • bretsk2500
    replied
    Originally posted by fun4now View Post
    some of them just start out on power trips and then you are screwed.
    ain't that the truth... one of the state inspectors here forced the electricians to completely rewire a ticket booth across the driveway from a building we were putting up at a local HS. the pisser is that the ticket booth had NOTHING to do with our work, no power for it came from our building. the guy was famous for that kind of ****. grrr.

    Leave a comment:


  • burninbriar
    replied
    Originally posted by fun4now View Post
    , if he starts feeling like you are on a power trip or he is losing controle he will be come a real pain, some of them just start out on power trips and then you are screwed.
    LOL Diplomacy is the word for the day.

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    i would call the inspector and ask him if he will alow you to paint the white wire ? be it with permanent marker or paint, if he goes for it great if not best to just bite the bullet and get the wire he wants.
    white wires are used as hots in switch loops all the time so it can be done it just depends on what the inspector wants to alow, if he starts feeling like you are on a power trip or he is losing controle he will be come a real pain, some of them just start out on power trips and then you are screwed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Kraemer
    replied
    If the cable is 12/2 w/gnd you are allowed to identify the white conductor with a permanent marker or black tape to be used as phase conductor only if it part of a cable assembly IE: romex, MC cable BX etc!
    If the wires are installed in conduit you are not allowed to do this, with the exception being the conductors are over #6 awg.
    But as the others stated the inspector has jurisdiction over what the code says.

    Leave a comment:


  • burninbriar
    replied
    Originally posted by Pile Buck View Post
    But wouldn’t it be red & black to power, white to the common bus bar, and green to the ground bus bar?
    I hope I don't get in trouble here, I'm not an electrician so don't take my stuff to the bank.
    120 and 240 both use two wires to complete the circuit and one wire for safety to trip a breaker in case of an electrical short. 120 uses one hot (black) and neutral (white) to complete the circuit and 240 uses two hots out of phase (black & red or any color but white or green) to complete the circuit. That just leaves the safety ground to deal with.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pile Buck
    replied
    Originally posted by burninbriar View Post
    If we are thinking the same thing, the inspector wants the 12/3 so he has a red and black hot wire. The third wire ( white ) is unused.
    But wouldn’t it be red & black to power, white to the common bus bar, and green to the ground bus bar?

    Leave a comment:


  • burninbriar
    replied
    Originally posted by x-ray View Post
    What do you hook the third wire up too?


    Thanks guys for the voltage drop info

    Pile thanks for that online calculator!
    If we are thinking the same thing, the inspector wants the 12/3 so he has a red and black hot wire. The third wire ( white ) is unused.

    Leave a comment:


  • x-ray
    replied
    Originally posted by leeschaumberg View Post
    Hate to tell you but the inspector is right! The reason two wire stuff is on the store shelf is because of price! Remember - When you can afford to you can afford not to.
    What do you hook the third wire up too?


    Thanks guys for the voltage drop info

    Pile thanks for that online calculator!

    Leave a comment:


  • burninbriar
    replied
    When I was doing sign work in Az. the electrical inspector would approve coloring the white wire with magic marker but he said its not really right and preferred that we use the correct wire coloring. Like Pile Buck said, they are the last word and what they say goes.

    Leave a comment:


  • leeschaumberg
    replied
    Wiring for a compressor

    Hate to tell you but the inspector is right! The reason two wire stuff is on the store shelf is because of price! Remember - When you can afford to you can afford not to.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pile Buck
    replied
    Originally posted by x-ray View Post
    Anybody off hand know if say a 50' run for my compressor will have to much voltage drop on start up or running for the 10ga wire? TIA.
    Here you go Ray. The electrical inspector I was dealing with on my daughter’s well house suggested this web site for a voltage drop calculator. One thing he told me about voltage drop, he has no authority over it. It’s all up to the owner to install the proper size wire for voltage drop. Learn sumthing everyday!


    http://www.stanselectric.com/page3.html

    Leave a comment:

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