New Shop pics

[storts]

To BullDog,,

I happen to have 2 3 phase 200 amp disconnects left over from old building,ehich my partner in the building,Knew a very smart electrican,,and made us buy them,one I sold for double what we bought them for,,,He worked for a big paper mill,,so I have that,and planed on doing it the same way,,,One in the basement,,and one in the new shop!!!!!!!!!Just have to get the rocket scientest to agree,,,

I plan on running all my condut,or aolt in the concrete,and come up for my Important runs,,and will still have some emt to run on walls,,But ive seen it done so many times like this,I really like it,,And save a ton of wire,,and all ties into a nice trench box on the bottom og the main pannel box,,so you still have room on top of the trench box to bring any extras,(as we know we will need them,,) But ive seen alot,and like em,and a money saver,,
If i screwed ya up,,I could skech you a Jack special dwg,,at least its better than my typing!!!!!!!!!!Thanks for the help,,Love the front apron,,,Jack

[Bulldog]

One thing that I forgot Jack.
It's important to remember to bring the ground from the house also. You'll need to get a service panel that hasn't got the neutral and ground tied together.
bulldog

[Portable Welder]

Frank 865, theres a good chance that if its an old pipe that you took out, The sand and water over the years wore the galvanize coating right off the inside as you said.
Storts, You have a very nice building, I also did a concrete apron in front of mine and am glad I did.
I was lucky when I did my electrical for the shop, even though I'm classified as resedential- agricultural they let me put in a dual meter can with 400 amps coming in and splitting into two 200 amp meter cans so I can seperate my business from my house.
Where my new shop is and my house to follow in the spring, I moved to this area because its one of the only areas that would let me have a home based welding shop. Every other city I called in in the Detroit metro area said no.
I'm sure my Twp. will soon change their law, however I should be grand fathered in.

[fun4now]

bulldog
how deep did you berry the lines?? in the pic it looks like its less than 2 ft. is that just the pic or is it shallow? i thought you had to be below the frost line ?
are you planing on running water out there or a well or neather ?? you mentioned a bathe room so i figured you would just drop in a small septic to handle that but what about the water ?

[Bulldog]

James,
The electrical doesn't need to below the frost line...Oh yea what's a septic? Out here in the country we just dig a hole... What do you big city folk do?
Now really,
I'll run the water lines in the spring. They will be below the frost line.
See ya,
Bulldog

[fun4now]

well i figured for as little use as it will get a baried 55 gal drum and a small leach field would do the trick.
as for what the city folk do i'm not real shore i can ask the cow's for ya they might know.

[storts]

To Bulldog,and Portable,,

Frank 865, theres a good chance that if its an old pipe that you took out, The sand and water over the years wore the galvanize coating right off the inside as you said.
Storts, You have a very nice building, I also did a concrete apron in front of mine and am glad I did.
I was lucky when I did my electrical for the shop, even though I'm classified as resedential- agricultural they let me put in a dual meter can with 400 amps coming in and splitting into two 200 amp meter cans so I can seperate my business from my house.
Where my new shop is and my house to follow in the spring, I moved to this area because its one of the only areas that would let me have a home based welding shop. Every other city I called in in the Detroit metro area said no.
I'm sure my Twp. will soon change their law, however I should be grand fathered in.

Bulldog,,Have a 3 phase 40 breaker panel,,thats not tied together,,so,im covered there,,Thanks,,

Portable,,Its not up yet,,thats the order,,and 3/4 paid for,,only 1 door in the front,13ft x 13 ft,and a 3 ft double walkin,,so if a cust has something we can carry it in whithout letting the heat out!!

Where I live ,we call it hooterville,,and every other house has a buisness sign hanging out front,,it kinda looks like vermont here,,and qithin 10-15 miles of big cities,,like having the both of both worlds!!Just having a problem with the foundation plan,which should be all tied up next week,and getting a answer from the power co.?????????I deffinally want most of my power run under the floor in pvc,or emt,,or what ever they approve,,will save alot on wire,,with when i sold my old building,He said leave me a light,,so take all the pipe and wire,,Thank You for the wire!!

Now its the power co holding me up,,1 engineer Bulldog said that if he allowed for me to do what you did,and i was to sell the house,there would not be enough power for the family of 6(his guess) and running a shop! Just have to wait and see,,But what a job,,we would not have customers if we worked like that!!!!!!!!So I wait,,,Thanks,Jack

[Cracker(Jack)]

Hey Bulldog. I will be burying my 3" PVC conduit as soon as I finish this letter. I am running 350ft. from my house to the shop ( 2 acres). I am doing this myself due to the expense, as I was quoted $13,000 from a reputable contractor. Another bid was around $11,000, but the higher bid increased the wire size from 4/0 to 250 and the price of copper wire is the reason for the outragous bids, as I called on material prices myself. He had also contacted the Miller rep on my Syncrowave 250 and said to weld w/ high freq. on aluminum and possibly someone else welding at the same time, I would not regret the larger size. As far as my incoming power, the electric company provided me with the largest residential service available,340 amp service I think, and installed at the house are 2 mains, 1 for the house and 1 for the shop, w/ 200 amp main breakers. (the power supply wires are not labeled for size but approx. 7/8" diameter including insulation, huge) My question to you is what was the distance you ran your 4/0 and do you have any issues with it? And also what size nuetral and ground? Appreciate the help.

[storts]

To Quacker J

Hey Bulldog. I will be burying my 3" PVC conduit as soon as I finish this letter. I am running 350ft. from my house to the shop ( 2 acres). I am doing this myself due to the expense, as I was quoted $13,000 from a reputable contractor. Another bid was around $11,000, but the higher bid increased the wire size from 4/0 to 250 and the price of copper wire is the reason for the outragous bids, as I called on material prices myself. He had also contacted the Miller rep on my Syncrowave 250 and said to weld w/ high freq. on aluminum and possibly someone else welding at the same time, I would not regret the larger size. As far as my incoming power, the electric company provided me with the largest residential service available,340 amp service I think, and installed at the house are 2 mains, 1 for the house and 1 for the shop, w/ 200 amp main breakers. (the power supply wires are not labeled for size but approx. 7/8" diameter including insulation, huge) My question to you is what was the distance you ran your 4/0 and do you have any issues with it? And also what size nuetral and ground? Appreciate the help.

Wierd,on how things are so different,all over the us,,??????????Here in Ct. we won today,,our electric rates will be the highest in the nation,,

Why copper ??????i have a 1100 ft driveway,,andnot me,But i have friends that work for the 2 different electric companys,,and everyone gets alluminum,to the meter can,,What ever you want to run to the panel box is your call,I did copper,,but that was 8 years ago,and your not talking alot of feet,,Just my 2 cents,,,thats 1/6 of a kilawatt hour as of july,,ther going to me nice,and phase there increase in,,but it will come out to over 50%,,,,and they got 38% last year,,wish I could get raises like that,,, Jack

[fun4now]

i'm going to be running aluminum for my feed, its like $1.30 a Ft. for 2/3 i think it was or something close to that, might have been 4/3 but eather way 5/8" diamiter or bigger. i only have 150 ft to go and inverter TIG and small mig's. it should be plenty. i looked at copper and it was way outside any chance i would have any time soon to do it.

[Bulldog]

Hey Guys,
This is why he's using Copper.

Here's some calculations for ya. Remember you can't have more then 5% loss.

All calculations are for 200 amps and 350' like Cracker Jack needs.

Lets look at Aluminum wire 1st.
(With 240 volts at our source).

2/0 - 10.96% loss = 214 volts / no good
3/0 - 8.69% loss = 219 volts / no good
4/0 - 6.89% loss = 223 volts / no good
250 - 5.83% loss = 226 volts / no good
300 - 4.83% loss = 228 volts / ok but just barely

Now lets look at Copper.
(Same 240 source).

2/0 - 4.82% loss = 228 volts / good. (Better then 300 in Aluminum)
3/0 - 3.82% loss = 231 volts / good
4/0 - 3.03% loss = 233 volts / good
250 - 2.57% loss = 234 volts / good

Cracker Jack,
I think if it were me I might go with 3/0 or maybe 4/0 but it isn't going to hurt going up to 250.
Good luck,
Bulldog

[Bulldog]

CrackerJack,
I forgot to answer your questions.
I'm running 200' of 4/0 Aluminum.
(So I have 3.90% loss and 231 volts). The neutral is a 2/0 and the ground I ran is also 2/0. (All needed is a #2 for the ground).
If you have anymore questions ask away.
Good luck,
Bulldog

[fun4now]

wow big diference.
still be ok for my short run of only 150 though.

[storts]

WOW Again

In Ct, the DPUC,give the electric co's 10% + or -,,So that would make a big difference,,,,Im only Going less that 100 ft,,so thats the least of my worry(FOR NOW),,Yesterday its the Kind of pipe i have to run in my concrete floor,for power to the machines,,If not alot more labor,and Pipe and wire..

Next thing there going to want what kind of load will be on the floor,,What happens when a steel truck backs in,,as the overhead cranes are tops on the list,,and a office,,to get it out of the house,,But still tyied in by a network,,

These all forums have helped alot,But helpinf 2 of my neibors put up there shops,,and mw with my constant notebook,,Just like building my own house,,there are a few things that i would of done differently,,My opion is to keep a diary,if your helping some one,or have a cust putting up a new building,,or a addition,,That diary sure does come in handy,,and your project will come out alot closer to what you exactly want,,wont be perfect,,But sure will save some headaches,,and some money,and have it your way!!!!!

Exeryone says its just a building,,andhaving owned dungons for 28 years,,never again!!!!

Here the bathroom is going to be a sneak job,,as if not they would want a engineered septic system,,Had to do that for the house,,I would love to put a drain for washing your cars or truck,,But thats not going to fly,,that could be real costly if you get caught,,and thats a wish only!!

To me its not just the 3 walls,,its all the little luxuarys,that dont cost much,but have to be thought out,,,Sorry for the rant,Jack

[Cracker(Jack)]

Thanks Bulldog. I will definitely go with at least 4/0 and still considering 250. Yes, I considered aluminum, but the size necessary is so large. The 7/8" diameter wire run from the power company underground from ground transformer to my meter could be aluminum or copper. I was not here to see the tie in's and the connections are covered now. There is no writing on the wire to identify it, at least none I can see with the panel cover removed. Anyway, copper is my choice and now back to digging. The excitement is building as I can now see a deadline to start wiring up equipment in my 4 year old 2000 sq. ft metal building on a 6" thick concrete slab with 3ft deep beams. 23ft height in the middle with 14ft tall openings. Insulated and plumbed for a bathroom w/ shower. Will post my pics when the wiring is complete.