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  • fun4now
    replied
    good choice, i dont think the lil dog was going to be happy having to polish the copper piping every week.
    dseman produced some good info and i would have to say even with seeing it used for many years safely i too would rather not chance it and i think when i make the compressor move and run solid lines i will be using copper. i dont have a good dryer for my lines and the water in the black pipe is a bit of a concern for my situation. and my little one is always geting into some thing so i'll just use polishing as his time outs. (just kidding)

    wile i where safty glasses 99.99% of the time in the shop my wife and kids pop in all the time and i would hate to see the PVC go on one of thouse ocations and cuse the loss of there sight. so i'll upgrade to copper for safty reasons.

    dseman
    thanks for the info.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bulldog
    replied
    Hey guys,
    THANKS for all the good info! I do appreciate it! I have a friend that has a tractor trailer repair shop just down the road and he uses the gray pvc and has had no trouble with it either. But after reading this post and all the links I'll be going with black iron. I have alot of experience with it and know that it works. I would have liked the ease of installation of that gray pvc though...As far as moisture goes I have a big air drier that handles that nicely.
    Thanks again guys,
    Bulldog

    Leave a comment:


  • dseman
    replied
    There are some specific types of Acrylonitrile-Butadiene-Styrene (ABS) piping that can be used for compressed air. It may be colored gray, I don't know. But I'm not aware of any PVC product that is recommended for compressed air applications. The downside to the ABS is that it is more expensive, so I wouldn't recommend it to the weekend warrior, or for that matter anyone.

    If you refer back to my OSHA link, you will find they do recommend an ABS product called Duraplus. There may be other products on the market now since that was posted in 1989.

    Duraplus (note it is ABS, not PVC)
    http://www.ipexinc.com/Content/EN_CA...ressed_air.asp

    -dseman

    Fun,
    It doesn't matter how many people say that schedule 80 is the way to go. What matters is if the 'right' people say it is the way to go. And those people would be the manufacturers and engineers who design those products.

    I think it is irresponsible to dispel information, especially safety issues, that is incorrect. It is not pointed at you specifically, it goes for anyone. Sorry, but with safety issues you don't want to have an accident happen before you decide to change. You want to change so that you avoid having an accident.
    Not meaning to step on your toes, sorry.

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    wile you cirtenly have made you r point, i was merly saying scedual 80 is whats comenly used and has been in my fathers shop for years. just as frank865 has had it in his as he stated, yet you feel the need to atack me.
    you have some beef with me you want to push here because im not in the mood to fight, nore am i the only one saying sch 80 is the way to go. so why is it you feel the need to jump on my case???

    Leave a comment:


  • dseman
    replied
    Originally posted by fun4now View Post
    diferent PVC pipe is rated at diferent PSI, you need to get the right stuff or you will have the explosive isues above.schedule 80 is what you need
    Fun, you need to understand that those psi ratings are based on compression testing of liquids and not gases.

    Anything over 73F in temperature and they are de-rated considerably. Even if the de-rated liquid psi was 3x that of my recommended air pressure needs, it is clear from the manufacturer that it is not to be used for compressed air. You can choose to use it if you do, but please don't spread mis-information by saying that increasing the wall thickness to a schedule 80 will make things acceptable.

    -dseman

    Leave a comment:


  • dseman
    replied
    Ok, I'm not here to start a fight. I just want to lay out the facts, and I think the manufacturers know something about their products and any liability they may have if a problem occured. Here's what I just found in 5 minutes from 2 manufacturers:

    1.) Spears Manufacturing Company
    http://www.swtwater.com/catalog/pict...Sales_2006.pdf

    Note the paragraph titled "Not for use with compressed air or gases"

    2.) United States Plastic Corporation
    http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pro...ookie%5Ftest=1

    Under the description of both their schedule 40 and 80 pvc pipe it states:
    "Pipe is not recommended for use with compressed air or gases."

    That is certainly enough information for me, but as always it's your call on how you choose to apply the information.

    -dseman

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    looks like we posted at the same time i guess i gotta type faster LOL but then i just miss spell even worse.

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    diferent PVC pipe is rated at diferent PSI, you need to get the right stuff or you will have the explosive isues above.schedule 80 is what you need

    Leave a comment:


  • frank865
    replied
    The white PVC is fragile stuff when used as air supply, I've seen the aftermath of a failure from it.
    The schedule 80 gray PVC IS approved for compressed air service. I checked on Black iron, copper & PVC before I did mine, & as I said in an earlier post, at least 2 of the local industrial plants use the PVC like I do. I know a lot of the guys that work maintenance at these plants & they say it's the greatest stuff since sliced bread.
    If you use it, be sure to get Schedule 80 PVC pipe, not conduit. I get a local plumbing supply to get it for me, also use the schedule 80 fittings. I get the fittings from MSC.
    It's your shop, make your own choice, just telling you what I use & am happy with.

    Leave a comment:


  • dseman
    replied
    From a previous post of mine:

    I know pvc is widely used by the weekend warrior crowd for compressed air. But they are exposing themselves to much more risk then is necessary. Here's why:

    "The main problem with using PVC pipe and fittings for compressed gas is not that it spontaneously explodes but that PVC is a brittle material that can be broken or shattered with external force unless properly protected. Compressed gasses can be best described as being similar to a coiled spring. When a PVC pipe or fitting fails when under stress from compressed gas it literally explodes like a bomb, sending shards of plastic flying several feet in all directions. Liquids, on the other hand, being compressed by only 1/10th of 1% contain very little stored energy. When pressurized systems with liquids fail, the energy is dissipated very quickly, thereby creating a much lower potential for hazard." - Colonial Engineering.

    http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html

    If you contact any pvc pipe manufacturer, they will state the same.
    The pipe's psi rating you state you are not violating is a compressed liquid rating and not a compressed gas rating.

    I had to spend quite a bit of time convincing my brother of the same, even after he had a section shatter at a pvc / brass joint junction.

    Copper or black iron is not really expensive at all when one's safety/health is concerned.

    I doubt this will change your mind on the matter, but hopefully it will give others pause for concern before installing their own.

    Copper is actually easy to work with if you know how to solder. No cumbersome threading operations involved. See the following for copper size and joining recommendations:

    http://www.copper.org/applications/p...cth_table4.htm

    Recommendations are for type K or L, not M drawn tubing, and minimally 95/5 soldered joints. Easy to do for the homeowner.

    The advantage I see for black iron is that it can take physical abuse that copper may not. But, it can get rusty inside--collecting in your filter--and it requires threading equipment and goop for sealing.

    -dseman

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  • MintSScout
    replied
    You're a Marine or a Ex-Marine ain't ya Troll?

    Leave a comment:


  • Troll
    replied
    I prefer the copper or black pipe. Neither one will "burst" due to pressure or shock. I know there is a price difference, but its just my $.02. If moisture is a concern the are water seperators out there for a moderate price. Nothing is perfect but I like the copper over the pipe for the simple reason that it is easier to splice into for future additions.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bulldog
    replied
    Hey guys,
    Thanks for all the good input! I would love to use gray plastic as long as it will handle 150psi. I have only ever used black iron and have no experience using the pvc pipe for air. Is the gray pvc any different then the white that ya use for water? Is it the gray that ya buy in the electrical section at the big box stores?
    Thanks again guys,
    Bulldog

    Leave a comment:


  • fun4now
    replied
    off and on every day is a good idea, i just throw the shut off valve at the tank and leave it on but i know i have a leak in the big shop at the hose reel so if i dont cut the air off at the tank it cycles all night, not a big leak just a lil one, i supose if it was a bigger leak i would get off my but and fix it.

    Leave a comment:


  • frank865
    replied
    Good point on the flex line...I always get a hydraulic line made up for the connection between the compressor & the plumbing. several feet makes it easy to move the compressor if needed & pretty much isolates the vibration.
    I also use 1/4 or 3/8 pipe & a ball valve & get the drain to where it's easy to get to. I always turn the power off to my compressor at night & back on in the morning. The water drain is near the power switch, so I drain the tank (just a quick twist, open then close) twice a day. Turning the compressor off each night also is a quick & easy leak detection check, if it starts every time I turn it on, I look for a leak. If it only starts once in a while I know my hoses & couplers are doing what they're supposed to.
    HTH

    Leave a comment:

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