Any one have a nascar rule book?

[vodomagoo]

Im looking for the specs for the drivers door bars, theres a debate on a bmw clubracing forum on what is the safetest door bars eather an x bar or the quasi nascar bars common in road racing. Ive been wondering what the spec of for nascar on there door bars

[pipeline Dan]

turn left man, turn left

Im looking for the specs for the drivers door bars, theres a debate on a bmw clubracing forum on what is the safetest door bars eather an x bar or the quasi nascar bars common in road racing. Ive been wondering what the spec of for nascar on there door bars

I don't know a dam thing about nascar rule book, but if I ever made one
the first rule would be " ALWAYS TURN TO THE LEFT"
Sorry I was just trying to be funny

[MAC702]

I only know Rule 12.4.(A) "Actions detrimental to stock car racing."

[DePantalones]

I bet the Nascar people have one

[JD in Socal]

I don't know a dam thing about nascar rule book, but if I ever made one
the first rule would be " ALWAYS TURN TO THE LEFT"
Sorry I was just trying to be funny

That's a good rule except on the road courses.

JD

[JD in Socal]

Im looking for the specs for the drivers door bars, theres a debate on a bmw clubracing forum on what is the safetest door bars eather an x bar or the quasi nascar bars common in road racing. Ive been wondering what the spec of for nascar on there door bars

The Nascar cage, including the side bars, is about as safe as you can get in a race car. Yes, it is stronger and safer than "x" bars. The catch is that their cars weigh a ton. Actually, closer to 2 tons. Nascar makes everyone follow the same rule book for cages so they all weigh a lot. Everyone is safer and no one has an advantage by being lighter (in theory, anyway).

The weight issue is why you won't see as much steel in other types of race cars. You can get a huge performance gain by losing a bunch of weight. The "x" bars give a lot of strength with a lot less weight than the rows of horizontal bars that you see on cup cars. The strongest "x" for side impact, by the way, is when the center of the x is outside the plane of the 4 corners of the x (like a nearly flat pyramid).

So... you can choose safest or you can choose fastest, but you can't have both.

JD

P.S. Sorry, I don't have the rule book either.

[JD in Socal]

... theres a debate on a bmw clubracing forum...

Tell them over there that a guy from the porsche clubracing forum said they were all sissies. My wife drives a bmw.


JD

[Gary94]

The only NASCAR Rule book I'm familiar with the the Dodge Weekly Nascar Series. They specify the horizontal and vertical bars on both door areas. I believe that Nextel Cup cars are this way also. Some series allow X bars but only on the right side. The X bar is no way near as safe as the NASCAR type. My series allows X bar on the right side but on the drivers side we have to have the horizontal bars with vertical bars plus gussets plus 1/8 inch steel plate on the outside of the bars. If you have ever been spun out and are sitting across the track trying to start the motor you apprecitate the all the protection on the drivers side.

[JD in Socal]

Tell them over there that a guy from the porsche clubracing forum said they were all sissies. My wife drives a bmw.


JD

Hey, Vodo,

I was just kidding you about the Porsche/BMW thing.

Funny thing is, if I had said Chev/Ford/Dodge, this thread would be 12 pages long by now. Welders don't care about those funny furrin cars, I guess.

JD

[vodomagoo]

I know a nascar bar built to nascar car specs are stronger for sure. Im really just wondering what the spec is on the door bars, ie how many, thickness, dia. ect.. Personaly I run a x bar gusseted and reinforced similarly to how x's on rally cars are done.

[Gary94]

Tubing is 1 3/4" Four horizontal bars and they are supposed to be .090 thick or possibly .120"

[ascwldr24]

According to my 2005 NASCAR weekly dodge series. Under rule 20F - 17.4 section B (9) must be four bars equally spaced horizontally. with a min. of six vertical supports. must be made of 1-3/4'' by 0.090'' seamless round tubing. 1/8'' magnetic steel plate may be welded or bolted on outside of left door bars.

[vodomagoo]

thanks guys thats exactly the kinda info I was looking for

[cagedruss]

Door bars for SCCA Touring or other Groups that requires NASCAR type door bars are not the same as True NASCAR type bars. First of all NASCAR use a .090-.095" 2"x4" Structural Steel perimeter frame and 4 parallel 1.75"x.095 DOM or Seamless Tube for the door bars with 4 evenly spaced uprights from frame rail through all 4 door bars.



SCCA allow for 8 mounting points only, 6 for cage and 2 to the front firewall unless you are building a Production or GT style cage where there is no limitations on mounting points.

SCCA GCR states you will have to parallel door bars with 2 evenly spaced uprights connecting the 2 together. They are not attached to the rocker or frame as in a true NASCAR type door bar. It is a loosely based design. See rules at www.SCCA.com



Now for over all strength of each design as per SCCA style, NASCAR type bars that all bent out the door skin and with window removed will be stronger for side impact.

The "X" design is designed for frontal impact, not side impact, like a car or other object colliding into the side of the car. Most GT cars built in Europe have both incorporated into the design to meet the FIA and US rules. That is the best but does add about 20 pounds to the cage. A small price to pay for safety.

[vodomagoo]

Cant say I have seen many european series cars with "nascar" style bars, the last pic Im pretty sure is of a us spec m3, if it is a european car then thats a first for me. Most if not all fia spec cages have an x or international style door bar or less. Also they are starting to use hi density material for energy dispersion in the door cavity, this has been used in dtm cars for some time now and even some US teams are using it like the speed gt caddys

My cage is well over 8 points more like 14 points with seam welding between a couple of bars and parts of the car like rockers and apillars ect... As are most cars raced in the classes im in are simliar so we are unlimited in the number of points but even with a limited number I dont see why using 3 or 4 bars for the "nascar" style bars is not more popular to tie them in better, mabey a bar running along the rocker that is not bent but tied in with the virticle bars