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Help For First Timer With Tig Inverter

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  • #16
    Weld

    Engold,

    Those pictures are incredible! I love the overlapping weld on the nickel pipe the best... I'm printing them out, and hanging them in my garage to remind me how good, good gets!

    Thanks, I understand about the pedal relative to the ceiling set by the amperage control knob...

    So if I understand... The Amperage figure of 1 Amp per .001 is only to get going, and when the workpiece gets saturated with heat... you use less?

    Thanks, Tony
    Miller Dynasty 300DX Runner
    Roadster BWE

    Comment


    • #17
      Technique

      Originally posted by OldSparks
      Just a couple of starters for you.

      How are your eyes? Almost everyone over 40-45 years can benefit from wearing magnifing cheaters but a new welder might not realize it because you don't really know what you are looking at yet.
      Next, practice holding a steady arc length. Place a washer on a sheet of paper. Point a pencil through the washer hole and proceed to move it around without marking the paper.
      Practice feeding filler rod through your fingers. As in pictures...thumb against top two fingers pushing rod.
      Practice moving washer and feeding rod at same time

      As for trying to learn to print an 'A', you can practice holding arc length and feeding rod by simply laying a 1/8" rod on your 1/8" plate (things are easier on heavier plate) and weaving your torch over it. At a low heat (50 amps maybe) you can take your time and concentrate on tieing in the edges. Use a grinder to scribe yourself some lines. Next practice a higher profile bead by gently adding more filler as you advance (might need higher heat). Next move your filler sideways to give a wider bead.

      Very basic but must knows
      OldSparks...

      Thanks for the tips... I have to decide what pattern to use... I was using circles, But I see your suggesting a criss-cross pattern... As far as feeding the rod... You are suggesting then not to use gloves? you mean I bought those $50 Torchwear gloves for nothing! LOL!

      BTW I'm 45... But thank goodness the eyes are still good... I wear no glasses.
      Tony
      Miller Dynasty 300DX Runner
      Roadster BWE

      Comment


      • #18
        RoydRage

        Sorry about not adding to put the gloves on, the pictures were just for demo purposes. Some people will say they don't but I wear them all the time.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by RoydRage
          Engold,

          Those pictures are incredible! I love the overlapping weld on the nickel pipe the best... I'm printing them out, and hanging them in my garage to remind me how good, good gets!

          Thanks, I understand about the pedal relative to the ceiling set by the amperage control knob...

          So if I understand... The Amperage figure of 1 Amp per .001 is only to get going, and when the workpiece gets saturated with heat... you use less?

          Thanks, Tony
          Tony

          That rule of thumb of 1 amp per 0.001" thickness is just a starting point. You'll learn by watching the puddle whether your on track, too high, or too low when you get some arc time. There are many factors that determine the correct heat range. Among them, joint design, ambient temperature of the workpiece, weld position, etc. Think about it, a 1/8" thick workpiece will require a little more heat on a T or fillet than a butt weld. If it sits on a steel work bench it will need more heat that when it's just hanging in the air. So the same 1/8" stock may be welded at a range of "correct" settings even though it's the same material. All these factors make it impossible to say one heat for one thickness exactly. You have to start machine setting somewhere and that's just an easy way to come up with a start point.


          Tom

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          • #20
            The amount of pedal you use is relative to the amount of amperage you have the machine set on.

            in other words, if your dial maxes out at 300 amps, but you have it set only to 150 amps, half your pedal will give you around 75 amps. If you then turn your dial up to 300 amps, half the pedal will give you 150 amps.

            Therefore, don't worry about how much pedal this guy you know uses, cause he probably sets his dial differently than you do.

            Also, The amount of time it takes to form a puddle shouldn't be 3 seconds. Hammer down the pedal a bit faster to get the puddle going, then back off of it as you see it getting too hot....and settle into whatever heat works best. Most welders will wind up making small pedal adjustments about 3-4 times during the weld.
            Those statements are so accurate & concise that they bear repeating.

            Very few people have Engloid's ability to both describe the process AND make textbook weldments.
            Barry Milton
            ____________________

            HTP Invertig 201
            HTP MIG2400

            Miller Trailblazer 302, Spoolmatic 30A, Suitcase 12RC
            Clarke Hotshot

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by wb5jhy
              Hmmm....another one learning to drive......in a Corvette.

              Hello Tony,

              Welcome to your new addiction.

              So to recap, set your amperage about one amp to every 0.001" thickness of material, floor the pedal to establish the molten puddle and add filler while "moving out with a purpose", as my old first sargent use to say. Once the puddle is established you'll find you need to back off a little to finish your bead run. After a few seconds of bead, know that the base metal gets ever hotter and will need even a little less heat again. At the end of the bead you'll ramp off slowly on the pedal to prevent cratering ......oh forgot, you got that fancy azz crater fill program thingy in that Corvette.

              Anyway, wanna be brief, just my $.02.

              Tom
              Tom,

              This is very helpfull thanks... Starting to realize how things work, and that I will learn to judge how much amperage, and pedal to use for a given metal, weld type, and position...

              I was just going to go out to the garage and do some practice... But a educational DVD I rented & watched last night has got me confused about something else...

              From everything I've seen and read, the torch Motion is supposed to be either circular, or zig zag... The person on the DVD uses a straight back and forth motion... moving straight foward, then a little back - adding filler, and foward again... Now he's certified aerospace welder... So I don't doubt him... But aren't you supposed hit each side of the weld to get more of a tooth on each of the pieces?

              Which way do I go?

              Thanks, Tony
              Miller Dynasty 300DX Runner
              Roadster BWE

              Comment


              • #22
                The middle ought to be good

                Tony,

                Try both and see what you like the best. Even better learn/master both (circular-zig zag). Try the back and forth too. I cant see it but maybe there is some reason that I'm just not seeing. At the very least it will show you how narrow the width of the weld area can be. Please understand (I think you do) that just because you read it or saw it on a DVD that does'nt mean it's the absolute right or the only way to do it. I've seen more than one or two articles written by someone without a clue. That is where this message board thing comes in. Just look at the thread about cutting aluminum. Some do it one way using this or that and someone else swears by this way. They all cut aluminum and some are just better than others. It never occurred to me to cut on wood which will clean the blade, I tried it with a carbide blade. Worked like a champ. I think the most important point is that you understand what you are trying to do. That is to weld peices of metal together. Read a lot, practice more than you read and keep in mind the wings wont fall off because of your weld. Leave that to the guys who already know how to weld. Practice and learn enough, ruin a lot of metal, burn your fingers a couple of times and then you'll be one of those that know too. Engold can produce welds like those in his pictures because he has the proper equipment, conditions, material and most importantly, he has the experience and knowledge to take advantage of his tools and skill. Don't forget that by his own admission not every weld looks like those. There are plenty of pictures posted here of close to, almost, but not quite and some that are just frickin art. Keep asking questions (there are no stupid ones) and keep in mind you are in a position most would envy. You get to learn this because you want to not because you have to.
                [B]Trail Blazer 302
                Suitcase X-TREME 12VS
                Syncrowave 180SD
                Coolmate 4
                Millermatic 175
                Millermatic 251
                HT Powermax 180
                Victor O/A
                DeWalt DW872 Chop Saw
                Lathe
                Milling Machine
                Bandsaw
                No matter how hard I try, I always hear about the other guy who can do it better, faster and cheaper. Sure would like to meet him someday but no one seems to be able to find him when I ask. [B]

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by acx780
                  Tony,

                  Try both and see what you like the best. Even better learn/master both (circular-zig zag). Try the back and forth too. I cant see it but maybe there is some reason that I'm just not seeing. At the very least it will show you how narrow the width of the weld area can be. Please understand (I think you do) that just because you read it or saw it on a DVD that does'nt mean it's the absolute right or the only way to do it. I've seen more than one or two articles written by someone without a clue. That is where this message board thing comes in. Just look at the thread about cutting aluminum. Some do it one way using this or that and someone else swears by this way. They all cut aluminum and some are just better than others. It never occurred to me to cut on wood which will clean the blade, I tried it with a carbide blade. Worked like a champ. I think the most important point is that you understand what you are trying to do. That is to weld peices of metal together. Read a lot, practice more than you read and keep in mind the wings wont fall off because of your weld. Leave that to the guys who already know how to weld. Practice and learn enough, ruin a lot of metal, burn your fingers a couple of times and then you'll be one of those that know too. Engold can produce welds like those in his pictures because he has the proper equipment, conditions, material and most importantly, he has the experience and knowledge to take advantage of his tools and skill. Don't forget that by his own admission not every weld looks like those. There are plenty of pictures posted here of close to, almost, but not quite and some that are just frickin art. Keep asking questions (there are no stupid ones) and keep in mind you are in a position most would envy. You get to learn this because you want to not because you have to.
                  Acx,

                  Very well said... You are totally right on the money... I would really like to know what torch movement Engold uses... I think I could do a neater weld with the back & forth movement... It's strange though... They look the same... This guy moves forward, then stops and drags the torch a little back & adds filler... It creates circles and looks as if you were moving the torch in a circular direction because the puddle is round I guess, and your pushing it back, a wave ,interlocking each bead... Maybe Engold can enlighten us...

                  Thanks... Tony
                  Miller Dynasty 300DX Runner
                  Roadster BWE

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Don't weld by numbers, just get a good estimate of how many amps you will need for a pice of metal and set your dial near that number and adjust it with the pedal. Get your motion down on pice of flat plate, then start doing joints, that where you will really learn something, when i was first learning to tig weld I laid down hundreds of stringer beads, I just ended up burning my hands alot, sure I got the motion down but the time would have been better spent learing how to weld different joints in different positions. And torch movement, it depends on the joint just experiment, and many folks say zigzag your filler in steel but i dab it, but it depends on the joint and which method is easier.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Oh no, thank you !!!!!

                      Tony,

                      I was wondering how I move my torch because I truly dont think about it. I just watch and change things till I get what I want. I find it a balance between torch movement, filler metal feeding and amperage. It is all variable, metal thickness, outside temperature, condition of the tungstun, prep of the steel, thickness and the stage of the moon, it all matters. I let the numbers be a guide not a rule. I set my amperage about 25 or so amps above what I think I might need. I flow the argon at 15/20 cfh. Just a little while ago I headed to the shop (my wife thought something was wrong) and I watched closely while welding on 1/8" steel, butt joint, flat. I start with my pedal on the floor, establish the arc and back it off till I just maintain the puddle. My first movement is a circle and as I add filler rod I increase the amperage because the rod cools the puddle. I noticed that my movement changed to a half moon zig zag. I tend to feed the filler at a steady rate rolling it through my thumb and forefinger. I end with a slow easing off of the pedal. I push on thinner metal and always when doing out of position welds. I steady my hand by resting it on whatever for more control. I always wear gloves and cover up. I already had cancer once and just have no interest in more chemo for skin cancer. I pull on thicker metal and find I can freehand the rod a lot easier than the torch. I think the last time I really thought about technique (while welding) was when I was teaching my son to tig. That was after some very intense O/A time with him. I think he was nine or ten. Thanks for making me think and for reminding me about teaching the boy.
                      [B]Trail Blazer 302
                      Suitcase X-TREME 12VS
                      Syncrowave 180SD
                      Coolmate 4
                      Millermatic 175
                      Millermatic 251
                      HT Powermax 180
                      Victor O/A
                      DeWalt DW872 Chop Saw
                      Lathe
                      Milling Machine
                      Bandsaw
                      No matter how hard I try, I always hear about the other guy who can do it better, faster and cheaper. Sure would like to meet him someday but no one seems to be able to find him when I ask. [B]

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Torch Movement Examples

                        Acx,

                        You really write well, Your posts are very enthralling and descriptive!

                        Here are some examples of what I did tonight... Bear in Mind... This is with a Total of 27 Minutes Arc Time.
                        The weld on the left is with a constant circular motion, and the one on the right that is marked "S" is the Straight back & forth motion as outlined in the Welding DVD.

                        I think I prefer the circular as it's easier to control bead width... At first I thought it wouldn't be... but if you add a little more, or less filler.. with the Straight method the bead size changes...

                        It's very interesting... The Straight method requires less heat... I guess because you concentrating the arc in one area... I think I'm going to go with Circles...

                        What Do You All Think??

                        http://www.fanfareintl.com/weld3crp.jpg

                        Thanks, Tony
                        Miller Dynasty 300DX Runner
                        Roadster BWE

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I have an excuse...

                          Tony,

                          I have to apologize for not getting back to you sooner. Sometimes playtime gets interupted by what allows you to have playtime. I looked at the welds. I am by no means an "expert". The one you used a circular motion on is far and away better than the straight line weld. The idea is to get the metal to flow together and then fuse evenly. Filler rod is used to fill in gaps caused by the metal flowing together making the base metals thinner in the process. In the photo on the left, (C) you can see that the base metal has melted, it is obvious that you were able to heat both sides of the base metal evenly. You can see that the filler metal flowed into the base metal and the height of the weld metal indicates that the circle weld has more penetration as does the metal fusion at the ends of the weld. In the straight line example (s) you can see the filler metal has the appearance of being dropped on the metal. I cant see much melting of the base metal and no fusion either. So when you flipped it over what did it look like. Bet you could tell where C had been welded and maybe just a little discoloration on the backside of s.
                          [B]Trail Blazer 302
                          Suitcase X-TREME 12VS
                          Syncrowave 180SD
                          Coolmate 4
                          Millermatic 175
                          Millermatic 251
                          HT Powermax 180
                          Victor O/A
                          DeWalt DW872 Chop Saw
                          Lathe
                          Milling Machine
                          Bandsaw
                          No matter how hard I try, I always hear about the other guy who can do it better, faster and cheaper. Sure would like to meet him someday but no one seems to be able to find him when I ask. [B]

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Torch Movment

                            Originally posted by acx780
                            Tony,

                            I have to apologize for not getting back to you sooner. Sometimes playtime gets interupted by what allows you to have playtime. I looked at the welds. I am by no means an "expert". The one you used a circular motion on is far and away better than the straight line weld. The idea is to get the metal to flow together and then fuse evenly. Filler rod is used to fill in gaps caused by the metal flowing together making the base metals thinner in the process. In the photo on the left, (C) you can see that the base metal has melted, it is obvious that you were able to heat both sides of the base metal evenly. You can see that the filler metal flowed into the base metal and the height of the weld metal indicates that the circle weld has more penetration as does the metal fusion at the ends of the weld. In the straight line example (s) you can see the filler metal has the appearance of being dropped on the metal. I cant see much melting of the base metal and no fusion either. So when you flipped it over what did it look like. Bet you could tell where C had been welded and maybe just a little discoloration on the backside of s.
                            I think the penetration on that weld was a little better on the circular movement... I think I have a better feel for it moving in circles.. It just seems more natural to me...

                            On some of my other trys with the back and forth movement with 1/8" steel butt joints... It actually looked like it was welded on BOTH SIDES! I couldn't believe it, but I guess because you are going right down the middle where the space is from the 2 pieces of metal... You go through to the other side...

                            I mean this guy in the DVD does aerospace work, and that's what he uses... I just don't know if it's for me... I figure since I'm learning now, why not find the best way...

                            I'd really like to know what Engold does... I respect his work a great deal...

                            Another thing is, that guy that uses this techniques welds are x-ray inspected constantly, and I'm sure they are super strong, but as far as looks go they don't hold a candle, or torch LOL... To Engolds...

                            Thanks, Tony
                            Miller Dynasty 300DX Runner
                            Roadster BWE

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

                              Tony,

                              Keep in mind that what looks good to one person might look like trash to another. It all depends on what pair of glasses you're wearing. I guess if it passes muster with x-ray glasses it must be ok...
                              [B]Trail Blazer 302
                              Suitcase X-TREME 12VS
                              Syncrowave 180SD
                              Coolmate 4
                              Millermatic 175
                              Millermatic 251
                              HT Powermax 180
                              Victor O/A
                              DeWalt DW872 Chop Saw
                              Lathe
                              Milling Machine
                              Bandsaw
                              No matter how hard I try, I always hear about the other guy who can do it better, faster and cheaper. Sure would like to meet him someday but no one seems to be able to find him when I ask. [B]

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                RoydRage

                                Sorry I lost track of this thread lately.
                                I noticed I used a back and forth motion also on steel. Very short back step though. I think circular motion is useful for leveling out a wide bead as when caping off on a multipass on thick plate.

                                Remember, the main goal is to make a sound weld (instead of just how it looks). If you're seeing the filler go to the other side then that is a good sign that you fused the base metal through the joint. What you don't want is to just melt filler rod over the seem before you establish a puddle. You can make it look great but the filler is just laying on top like hot wax on a cool surface with little depth of fusion. Use the BFH to check some coupons to see which method works best for you.

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