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  • backpurging with Ar/Co2 mix..?

    hello...

    I am about to buy my first TIG. Unfortunately, due to bad local representation for Miller, it is out of the question due to the price, but I am going for an 160 amp AC/DC TIg which will I hope satisfy my needs... (4130 steel tubing up to 2.5/3mm, SS up to 2.5 mm, aluminium up to 3mm)

    Since I have a 200 amp MIG already, I have a bottle filled with Ar/CO2 mix, and I will be getting another one just for Ar. Since I am using relatively small bottles, I would like to use my other bottle (the ar/Co2 mix one) to provide Gas for backpurging when working on SS. so my question is, can I backpurge SS with 75/25 Ar/Co2, or do I have to invest in twin regulators for my Ar bottle and just use that one for SS...? Tig will be connected to Ar only of course..

    cheers

    vlado

  • #2
    You won't like the results of purging with a CO mix. It will be dirty and not work well at all.

    Just get a splitter and run purge and the torch off the same regulator.

    Comment


    • #3
      its not the miller rep. its miller in general, the dyn.200 being there only ac/dc tig option if ya need a converter at around $2700
      if ya heve the power to run it the syn200 is a nice setup at about $1800 but its a transformer so it wants like 50 amps to run.
      thermal arc makes a real nice 185 amp ac/dc inverter for like $1600 that has gotten some realy good reviews.
      just out of cureosity what TIG unit are you getting in the 160amp range, as it might be pushing it a bit to go for 3MM of aluminum at 160amps.
      thanks for the help
      ......or..........
      hope i helped
      sigpic
      feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
      summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
      JAMES

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by fun4now
        its not the miller rep. its miller in general, the dyn.200 being there only ac/dc tig option if ya need a converter at around $2700
        if ya heve the power to run it the syn200 is a nice setup at about $1800 but its a transformer so it wants like 50 amps to run.
        thermal arc makes a real nice 185 amp ac/dc inverter for like $1600 that has gotten some realy good reviews.
        just out of cureosity what TIG unit are you getting in the 160amp range, as it might be pushing it a bit to go for 3MM of aluminum at 160amps.

        I would have no problems paying $ 2700 for a dyn. 200.... my problem is that it would cost me at least $5000 over here if not $6000.... yep you read that right... last quote for a syn200 runner was about that if I remember correctly. I even considered ordering a dyn200 from the stares and importing it myself, but when I add up all the time and money involved, I might just go for something european...

        I am right now considering Telwin Technology Tig 180 AC/DC which is a 160 amp machine, and would cost me around $3200, but I would rather get a Selco Genesis 200 AC/DC which is a full 200 amp machine (although it sounds a bit fishy considering it is running from a single phase 16 amp 230 volt supply...) but that one is about a grand more (both come with the torch, ground cable and regulator...

        as for my needs... well I need to fabricate aluminium end tanks for intercoolers, some swirl pots and dry sumps so 160 just might cut it... having said that, I'd rather get a 200 amp machine if I can afford it.. I can not run a big, hungry machine like a Sync, as I just do not have the space or the power..


        thanks for the info on backpurging guys,

        cheers

        vlado

        Comment


        • #5
          if my numbers are right, you'de have a voltage of around 12 volts from a 16 amp circuit producing 200 amps, which is pretty tough to use for any kind of welding i'm familiar to. There's maybe something more to it (or its not all its cracked up to be). Some machines (off-brand) will list a minimum circuit but they actually need a larger service for full power. ifs this the case?
          hre

          Comment


          • #6
            WOW!!! and i was bummed about the $2700. i supose its out of the ?? to order off e-bay as they wont ship to ya??
            thanks for the help
            ......or..........
            hope i helped
            sigpic
            feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
            summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
            JAMES

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Engloid
              You won't like the results of purging with a CO mix. It will be dirty and not work well at all.

              Just get a splitter and run purge and the torch off the same regulator.
              ditto.
              Western Enterprises has an argon Y connector with needle valves. It would be Western item #411 and retails for about $30. This way when you don't need to purge you can shut off gas flow to purge hose without having to unhook everything.
              Rich Ferguson
              Sales Technician
              Jackson Welding Supply Co.
              "Keep America Strong.....Weld It"
              www.jacksonweldingsupply.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jwsrep
                ditto.
                Western Enterprises has an argon Y connector with needle valves. It would be Western item #411 and retails for about $30. This way when you don't need to purge you can shut off gas flow to purge hose without having to unhook everything.

                I was thinking of running two pressure regulators, one for the TIG and the other for backpurging....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by fun4now
                  WOW!!! and i was bummed about the $2700. i supose its out of the ?? to order off e-bay as they wont ship to ya??
                  no way, we do not have paypal... but I could just buy a unit online, that is not a problem, but when I pay for transport + customs + tax I still get a cheaper Miller then buying locally, but the problem is that for similar money I can get very advanced units made in Italy, and no hassle with importing the stuff myself...

                  cheers

                  vlado

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    you can get a Y-valve without the needle valve and run 2 reg. off it.
                    thanks for the help
                    ......or..........
                    hope i helped
                    sigpic
                    feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
                    summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                    JAMES

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Argon/CO2 is an active mix - not an inert sheilding gas. You won't get good performance because it's designed to react in beneficial ways with the wire feed process. With TIG, it's not a beneficial result.

                      You won't need another regulator, just another flow meter. King flow meters can be had in many places for next to nothing (ebay being one of them). I got mine locally for $10 at a surplus store.

                      In that configuration, you'll want the high flow side to be the purge, so you can control the low side via the meter and not disturb your arc properties with excessive turbulence. The sum of the two will equal what the regulator mounted meter will be indicating. Normal deduction will tell you what's flowing to your purge based on what you have set at your torch.
                      Syncrowave 250DX
                      Invison 354MP
                      XR Control and 30A

                      Airco MED20 feeder
                      Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
                      Smith O/A rig
                      And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        just to say thanks everyone... I decided to take the plunge, and have just made a full payment on a Telwin Tecnology TIG 180 AC/DC (a 160 amp machine actually)..... Tig wwelding here I come... I did my homework, talked to the service people checked the prices... etc..

                        I will probably have my mig bottle filled with pure argon and use that for backpurging.. as my mig is a 210 amp machine and I do not do that much thick stuff so I can live with a bit less penetration.

                        Just to confirm that you guys in the USA have best deals in the world... I could have gotten a DYNASTY 200 DX at list price (3100 USD..) for what I paid for my Telwin with a TIG torch.... and this was a "deal of a century" type of a sale as this is the bottom of the price range for such machines... Fronius, which is a top of the line machine in europe is about 600 USD more..
                        I also ordered a pedal remote... it is funny but over here no one uses it... the sales people were giving me funny looks about it...

                        cheers

                        vlado

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Congrats on the new tig.
                          If you use the same bottle refilled with argon it will need to be purged first to remove all of the CO2 from it. Be prepared to use more gas than the mig, a lot more gas. Be sure to post some pics when your machine arrives.
                          Dennis


                          Thermal Arc 185-TSW
                          Millermatic Challenger 172
                          VictorO/A
                          Atlas Craftsman 12 by 24 Lathe
                          Esab PCM-875
                          Wholesale Tool Mill-Drill

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            congrats on the new TIG.
                            be shore to have fun learning and don't get to frustrated with the first attempts. good things come to those willing to work at it.
                            thanks for the help
                            ......or..........
                            hope i helped
                            sigpic
                            feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
                            summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                            JAMES

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              he he, thanks,

                              as for the bottles... I use a large industrial supplier that sells gas on the exchange basis, so I just pick up a filled bottle and leave an empty one... my shiny new bottle has been long gone.. :-)
                              They also use modified bottles for MIG gas mix, some sort of a tube inside the bottle to provide a constant mix or something... so I will not have the same bottle refilled with argon, but will get a propper argon bottle... I also have a CO2 bottle I bought by accident (thought I was getting an argon one..) so I might be tempted to have a bottle of CO2 for those thick steel projects...

                              I will post some pics of the unit when it arrives...

                              cheers

                              vlado

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