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Pros & Cons of Leasing vs. Owning your tanks

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  • BHeadinOut
    replied
    Cylinders/Gases

    I work for PRAXAIR, our policy is to "exchange" bottles with "naked" neckrings. NO MATTER WHO's THEY ARE. If you are EVER exchanging cylinders, PLEASE MAKE sure you leave with a "naked" cylinder neckring to prevent any problems!!! If you wish to buy a cylinder, with C-25 gas ( argon-co2), or straight argon, we discount them. (although alot of welders are now using a tri mix of co2, argon, and helium for smoother welds, less splatter, & fumes) A "Q" size cylinder, or 80 cuft runs around $90.00 with the 1st fill free. An "S" size cylinder, or 150 cuft runs around $130.00 (1st fill free). A "K" cylinder ( 330 cuft)---- we don't sell, (nor a "T"- 360 cuft), as we, in America, are having a "steel" issue, thereby causing of lot more issues as far as steel cylinders go. But rest assured, we, @ PRAXAIR do NOT take cylinders with "existing" competitors names on them, therefor I wish to inform you, you're better off "buying" your cylinders, and when you refill them, make sure, on the "exchange" that they give you a cylinder with a "naked" neckring, and the hydrotesting date is not going to expire while they are in your posession. Also, in the state of California, YOU MUST HAVE A CYLINDER CAP on your cylinders while transporting them. These caps run about $8.00 each, so if you come into any industrial supply facility to have your bottles filled, or exchange, you DON'T need a receipt, but you must HAVE a cylinder cap! And your HYDROTEST date, must be stamped on your cylinder, and it MUST be current, or you, again, pay an approximate $18.00 for a HYDROTEST fee. Thank U State of California. I hope this infor helps someone........Renting IS NOT BETTER!

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  • Tailshaft56
    replied
    Originally posted by acx780
    I while back I got into the rental deal with a local distributor. I had a small engine repair shop and did more mechanical work than anything else. I had a medium sized O/A setup and really did'nt do much with it. Back then I might refill twice a year. I figured I was that far ahead for not shelling out the cash to own until I got hit with what they called the Demmarage fee. I still dont know what it was but I know it was about $75.00 a year. I sold that shop (at a profit, go figure) and the setup went with it and so did that fee. I got back into welding recently and spent a bunch of money. I bought all my tanks (including spares) and all my stuff from one distributor. I thought about renting but I knew what I wanted in size, type etc. so it was'nt a trial thing. I knew I was'nt going to sell this stuff unless I was upgrading (larger) and this distributor said I could trade in and upgrade the tanks anytime. The trade in value is what the tank is going for today, not what I payed for it. The price of the tanks is only going to go up. For the price of the refill they swap my bottles and although some dont look as pretty as others I figure I'm getting tested, full bottles every time. I dont worry about paying testing fees, replacing valves or tanks because I'm geting "new" tanks every time and I know the inspections are current. The additional money for upgrades, it turns out, is just the additional fill fee so I decided there was no real benifit to renting. As far as I can tell buying in my situation gives me the same benefits as renting without the additional costs over time. Your situation might go in the other direction but you wont know without talking to the guy(s) at the distributor. If they are'nt interested in talking to you and explaining your options then you probably should'nt be interested in spending your money there.
    When my dad worked at Corning Glass in Muskogee he told me Corning would return full Oxygen bottles at the 30 day mark rather than pay 10 cents a day demurge. The price of a full bottle included 30 days rent.

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  • fun4now
    replied
    questions to ask wile shopping for bottles

    yep
    you should defenetly talk to the distributers in your area befor ya decide, as it realy dose verry from place to place as far as what the rental fees are and how they deal with owned botles, some places charge little for rental as they want to make there $$$ off the fill, thease places will likely have beter options on the sizes available to buy also, again where you are will determin what size bottles they will sell. in my area they dont make much off the fill so they wont sell bottels ober the 80quft size so they can make there $$$ off the rental fees. mine being almost $60 a year, also the longer the rnt contract the less it will be per year, my options were $60 a year or $150 for 3 years or $200 for 5 years wile others have rentals as low as $20 for 20years.so for me it realy is better o own but i couldnt buy the size i wanted so i rented, i have now found a place to buy a 125quft fo illl be buying next time. also some places will fill your owned tank and get it back to you this can take time or be filled on site. if filled on site it may be filled from anlther botle meaning you wont get a compleatly filled tank as the 2 tanks conected to fill will only equalize presher so you will end up a lil light in the fill.and some places will just swop out the tank weather you own or rent meaning you wont have to worry about certifications and you will get a true fill not a caskade fill(2 tanks hooked together ) but you may end up with some old ugly looking tanks from time to time, that may or may not bother you. it did bother me and i almost started painting the tanks every time i got a new one untill the wife and i decided on the cover sleeves.see atached pic above

    so wile it may be better to owne in my area it could well be better to rent in yours, it realy depends a lot on who you get your gass from. and i verry much agree with acx780 on the part about if they dont have time to explain all the pro's and con's to ya then you should be looking some where else. also keep in minde not every one working at the distributer will know what they are doing to some its just another stupid job they hate and dont know didilly about. so be ready with the right questions and if he dosent know the ansers ask for some one that dose.

    here are some good questions that should get you a good ideal of what you will need to know to make the right choice about buy VS rent

    1. rental fees for 1yr. and multiple years. it may be a better deal if its a long term rental.

    2.what sizes do they sell. again they may not sell the size you want.

    3.do they exchange the bottle's on refill or fill on site.

    3-1/2. will they fill a bottle you bought some where els, what do you need to prove its your bottle. you might find a beter deal on the bottle some where else but they might fill cheeper here then there but might want a sails slip on the bottle to prove ownership.

    4.if they fill on site, is it a caskade system or are they a true filling station.remember with a caskade you wont get a full fill, should be close though i would bring a gage with me to check.

    5. is the filling process different for owned and rented. could be they only swop out rentals and you will have to wait to get an owned bottle back or they will caskade it wile you wait.

    6.how long do you have to wait to get your bottle back? if they dont swop owned bottles.

    7. do they charge for cirt. testing? if so how much. some places will cirt. for free if you buy from them, it should be in the purchas agreement, if they say its free make shoure its on your recept(protect yourself).

    8.delivery options. do they deliver to your shop with rented only tanks or will they diliver eather one? this may not be a consern to you so skip it if ya want but if its part of the rental $$$ you might as well get what you are paying for

    thease are just the ones of the top of my head, so maybee others will pop in with something i forgot or you might even have one i missed. be an informed shopper, if you dont know what you are asking about they will not always give you all the info you need, especilly if they dont know. and again if they wont take the time to anser thease basic questions about ther service go some where else.

    sorry about the book but i hope it helps
    james

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  • acx780
    replied
    I own them cause it works for me....

    I while back I got into the rental deal with a local distributor. I had a small engine repair shop and did more mechanical work than anything else. I had a medium sized O/A setup and really did'nt do much with it. Back then I might refill twice a year. I figured I was that far ahead for not shelling out the cash to own until I got hit with what they called the Demmarage fee. I still dont know what it was but I know it was about $75.00 a year. I sold that shop (at a profit, go figure) and the setup went with it and so did that fee. I got back into welding recently and spent a bunch of money. I bought all my tanks (including spares) and all my stuff from one distributor. I thought about renting but I knew what I wanted in size, type etc. so it was'nt a trial thing. I knew I was'nt going to sell this stuff unless I was upgrading (larger) and this distributor said I could trade in and upgrade the tanks anytime. The trade in value is what the tank is going for today, not what I payed for it. The price of the tanks is only going to go up. For the price of the refill they swap my bottles and although some dont look as pretty as others I figure I'm getting tested, full bottles every time. I dont worry about paying testing fees, replacing valves or tanks because I'm geting "new" tanks every time and I know the inspections are current. The additional money for upgrades, it turns out, is just the additional fill fee so I decided there was no real benifit to renting. As far as I can tell buying in my situation gives me the same benefits as renting without the additional costs over time. Your situation might go in the other direction but you wont know without talking to the guy(s) at the distributor. If they are'nt interested in talking to you and explaining your options then you probably should'nt be interested in spending your money there.

    Leave a comment:


  • halbritt
    replied
    I've never experienced any of these "rules" anyone mentions. I buy my cylinders from wherever, mostly used. As long as there's no stamp on the neck-ring, any of the places will swap them out for a filled cylinder with no questions asked. Occasionally a hydro is needed, but they just charge me the $12 or whatever and swap it. I've even had a guy at Airgas step me up to the next size cylinder for nothing more than the price of the fill.

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  • Tailshaft56
    replied
    You can buy the smaller tank and trade up at fill time. You should get full value on your old tank.

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  • Fishy Jim
    replied
    A bill of sale is all you need around here if they don't trust you. I told my suppliers where I got mine and they both shrugged and said "ok". They'll only exchange their tanks, but they'll fill and service anything (new valves, hydro, etc). My 150cf argon right now is the only one that they hang onto and I'm going to be upgrading that to a "T" (330cf) on my next fill. I'll do a helium mix in that tank when I get the bigger one for straight argon.

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  • fun4now
    replied
    I am renting now but will buy at my next rent point.i stsrted out renting because in my area you could only buy the 80qf or smaller and I wanted a larget cylinder. So I rent a 155qf tanks at almost $60 a year, so far they got $180 of mine and its still there tank. I have spent more $ on rent than on the c25 in it. I got the larger tank to save $ as its only $8 more to fill a 155 then it is to fill the 80qf, so it seemed to make good sence to get 2X the gas for an extra $8. however scence I got my last rental agreement our tractor supply com. Stor has started carrying gas threw pony and I can buy a 125qf (close enough to 155) about $200 with the added bonuse of being able to swop it out for a full one on saterday and Sunday. Also it’s a 15 mile trip to get it at the TSC and my old gas guy is more like 45miles. So even though the refill is about $2 more and 25qf less at todays gas prices im still way ahed not needing to drive my truck the extrs 30mil. Heck that’s $10+ extra in truck gasss at every fill up im saving. I am a small hobie shop and fill my tank maybee 2 times a year. My O/A setup I bought outright again in the small bottles I have a B acet. Tank and a 60qf oxy. Tank. I have only had to fill them 1 time scence I bought them 2+years ago so if I was renting them also the rent would have payed more than the purchas $$

    My advice would be buy if you have limited use planed, rent if you need lots so they will deliver it to ya.

    As for the ugly tank when ya bought a nice prity new one, the wife solved that problem for me with custom made leather bottomed sleeves with my faveret cartoon figures embroyderd on them. So no mater how bad the tank looks it still looks great in my shop. see pic.
    Attached Files

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  • bigdogjoe62
    replied
    Up here in the N.E. we sell anything up to an 80cf,anything larger you lease theres no law about owning larger tanks,it different distributor rules in different parts of the country some do some, dont sell the larger ones,at our stores in the south they sell up to the 120cf tanks, if leasing usually the longer the lease the cheaper I sell a 5yr lease for $175.00 per tank

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  • drscotch
    replied
    beware of guys selling used bottles

    I found an ad in our local free ad paper yesterday where a guy is selling a bunch of bottles for what sounds like a really good price. I phoned and got the story about him shutting down his business, etc.. I asked who's bottles they were and he said Praxair.......hmmm...... I'm pretty sure Praxair doesn't sell bottles in our city. I phone my guy at Praxair and he confirms that they only lease and don't sell bottles. He said if you show up with those bottles they'll check the numbers and say "thanks for returning OUR bottles". Basically buddy is selling Praxairs property in the paper. He neglected to mention that they were originally leased. Beware.

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  • burninbriar
    replied
    I hear a lot of storys about distributers not exchangeing bottles, I believe them dont get me wrong but I have never had a problem. I am however a little concerned becouse the last time I got aceyylene I went to an out of town dist. becouse the local one was closed on saterday and all they had to give me was one of the old style tanks that requires a tank wrench to turn it on & off. I'm hopeing my local guy will exchange it when its empty.
    The only real problems I have seen was for a while a long time ago they were all checking paperwork before they would exchange becouse of a theft, cant remember if it was a construction site or a distributer that got robbed.
    I dont know how much good it does them though becouse someone could have a hundred hot cylinders and one reciept as long as you exchange them one at a time.

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  • jwsrep
    replied
    Alha,
    The great debate.....should I buy or lease.
    It really depends on the the way the distributors in your area work. Some places will not exchange your cylinder if you bought it at another distributorship (if you have more than 1 in your area). They will only exchange cylinders they handle. Then there are others that will exchange cylinders no questions asked. There is a law that states a distributor can not fill another distributors cylinder without written consent from the owner of the cylinder.
    The downside of buying cylinders is if you are in an area that will not fill a cylinder except their own, you are at the mercy of the distributor you bought the cylinder from. If you don't like their service or if they raise their prices rediculously or they never seem to have a full cylinder to exchange...you are basically stuck with them. If you are leasing the cylinder, you simply return the cylinder to that distributor and seek your product elsewhere. It gives you an out.

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  • Fishy Jim
    replied
    Praxair thinks we own our O/A bottles too. It was another of those acquisition paper chases that favored us in the end. I exchange them, they charge me for the gas, I smile and drive home with a new tank. I did ask what the status was on our account (my father and mines) and they said we owned them. He thinks it was a long term lease when he got them 22 years ago, but doesn't remember. It was a similar situation back then to many of us now (myself included when I started getting my own gear), renting is easier to swallow. I rented my first mig because dropping $600 was harder than spending $75 a month with their understanding they'd never see the machine again. They even put the rental numbers on it on a piece of masking tape rather than stenciling the machine (it was brand new). Things have changed now (same store, same ownership - not Praxair), and they'll only credit you 60% of your rent to the purchase. I might have a 350P instead of my TA 251 if it was still the old way.

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  • Coalsmoke
    replied
    someone else mentioned you need to look at the costs involved and thats true. I can buy my bottles for $550 each or rent them for $60 each for a year. In the long run I'd be better off owning them, but the ease of renting can't be beat. I'd suggest start of renting. Once you get a handle on what your ideal tank sizes are, pony up and buy them if you want.

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  • MtotheIKEo
    replied
    I bought my c-25 cylinder from my local Airgas, and when I need it filled (like right now) I just take it in and they give me a full one.

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