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Pros & Cons of Leasing vs. Owning your tanks

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  • #16
    beware of guys selling used bottles

    I found an ad in our local free ad paper yesterday where a guy is selling a bunch of bottles for what sounds like a really good price. I phoned and got the story about him shutting down his business, etc.. I asked who's bottles they were and he said Praxair.......hmmm...... I'm pretty sure Praxair doesn't sell bottles in our city. I phone my guy at Praxair and he confirms that they only lease and don't sell bottles. He said if you show up with those bottles they'll check the numbers and say "thanks for returning OUR bottles". Basically buddy is selling Praxairs property in the paper. He neglected to mention that they were originally leased. Beware.

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    • #17
      Up here in the N.E. we sell anything up to an 80cf,anything larger you lease theres no law about owning larger tanks,it different distributor rules in different parts of the country some do some, dont sell the larger ones,at our stores in the south they sell up to the 120cf tanks, if leasing usually the longer the lease the cheaper I sell a 5yr lease for $175.00 per tank

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      • #18
        I am renting now but will buy at my next rent point.i stsrted out renting because in my area you could only buy the 80qf or smaller and I wanted a larget cylinder. So I rent a 155qf tanks at almost $60 a year, so far they got $180 of mine and its still there tank. I have spent more $ on rent than on the c25 in it. I got the larger tank to save $ as its only $8 more to fill a 155 then it is to fill the 80qf, so it seemed to make good sence to get 2X the gas for an extra $8. however scence I got my last rental agreement our tractor supply com. Stor has started carrying gas threw pony and I can buy a 125qf (close enough to 155) about $200 with the added bonuse of being able to swop it out for a full one on saterday and Sunday. Also it’s a 15 mile trip to get it at the TSC and my old gas guy is more like 45miles. So even though the refill is about $2 more and 25qf less at todays gas prices im still way ahed not needing to drive my truck the extrs 30mil. Heck that’s $10+ extra in truck gasss at every fill up im saving. I am a small hobie shop and fill my tank maybee 2 times a year. My O/A setup I bought outright again in the small bottles I have a B acet. Tank and a 60qf oxy. Tank. I have only had to fill them 1 time scence I bought them 2+years ago so if I was renting them also the rent would have payed more than the purchas $$

        My advice would be buy if you have limited use planed, rent if you need lots so they will deliver it to ya.

        As for the ugly tank when ya bought a nice prity new one, the wife solved that problem for me with custom made leather bottomed sleeves with my faveret cartoon figures embroyderd on them. So no mater how bad the tank looks it still looks great in my shop. see pic.
        Attached Files
        thanks for the help
        ......or..........
        hope i helped
        sigpic
        feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
        summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
        JAMES

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        • #19
          A bill of sale is all you need around here if they don't trust you. I told my suppliers where I got mine and they both shrugged and said "ok". They'll only exchange their tanks, but they'll fill and service anything (new valves, hydro, etc). My 150cf argon right now is the only one that they hang onto and I'm going to be upgrading that to a "T" (330cf) on my next fill. I'll do a helium mix in that tank when I get the bigger one for straight argon.
          Syncrowave 250DX
          Invison 354MP
          XR Control and 30A

          Airco MED20 feeder
          Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
          Smith O/A rig
          And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

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          • #20
            You can buy the smaller tank and trade up at fill time. You should get full value on your old tank.
            Dennis


            Thermal Arc 185-TSW
            Millermatic Challenger 172
            VictorO/A
            Atlas Craftsman 12 by 24 Lathe
            Esab PCM-875
            Wholesale Tool Mill-Drill

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            • #21
              I've never experienced any of these "rules" anyone mentions. I buy my cylinders from wherever, mostly used. As long as there's no stamp on the neck-ring, any of the places will swap them out for a filled cylinder with no questions asked. Occasionally a hydro is needed, but they just charge me the $12 or whatever and swap it. I've even had a guy at Airgas step me up to the next size cylinder for nothing more than the price of the fill.
              - Heath

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              • #22
                I own them cause it works for me....

                I while back I got into the rental deal with a local distributor. I had a small engine repair shop and did more mechanical work than anything else. I had a medium sized O/A setup and really did'nt do much with it. Back then I might refill twice a year. I figured I was that far ahead for not shelling out the cash to own until I got hit with what they called the Demmarage fee. I still dont know what it was but I know it was about $75.00 a year. I sold that shop (at a profit, go figure) and the setup went with it and so did that fee. I got back into welding recently and spent a bunch of money. I bought all my tanks (including spares) and all my stuff from one distributor. I thought about renting but I knew what I wanted in size, type etc. so it was'nt a trial thing. I knew I was'nt going to sell this stuff unless I was upgrading (larger) and this distributor said I could trade in and upgrade the tanks anytime. The trade in value is what the tank is going for today, not what I payed for it. The price of the tanks is only going to go up. For the price of the refill they swap my bottles and although some dont look as pretty as others I figure I'm getting tested, full bottles every time. I dont worry about paying testing fees, replacing valves or tanks because I'm geting "new" tanks every time and I know the inspections are current. The additional money for upgrades, it turns out, is just the additional fill fee so I decided there was no real benifit to renting. As far as I can tell buying in my situation gives me the same benefits as renting without the additional costs over time. Your situation might go in the other direction but you wont know without talking to the guy(s) at the distributor. If they are'nt interested in talking to you and explaining your options then you probably should'nt be interested in spending your money there.
                [B]Trail Blazer 302
                Suitcase X-TREME 12VS
                Syncrowave 180SD
                Coolmate 4
                Millermatic 175
                Millermatic 251
                HT Powermax 180
                Victor O/A
                DeWalt DW872 Chop Saw
                Lathe
                Milling Machine
                Bandsaw
                No matter how hard I try, I always hear about the other guy who can do it better, faster and cheaper. Sure would like to meet him someday but no one seems to be able to find him when I ask. [B]

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                • #23
                  questions to ask wile shopping for bottles

                  yep
                  you should defenetly talk to the distributers in your area befor ya decide, as it realy dose verry from place to place as far as what the rental fees are and how they deal with owned botles, some places charge little for rental as they want to make there $$$ off the fill, thease places will likely have beter options on the sizes available to buy also, again where you are will determin what size bottles they will sell. in my area they dont make much off the fill so they wont sell bottels ober the 80quft size so they can make there $$$ off the rental fees. mine being almost $60 a year, also the longer the rnt contract the less it will be per year, my options were $60 a year or $150 for 3 years or $200 for 5 years wile others have rentals as low as $20 for 20years.so for me it realy is better o own but i couldnt buy the size i wanted so i rented, i have now found a place to buy a 125quft fo illl be buying next time. also some places will fill your owned tank and get it back to you this can take time or be filled on site. if filled on site it may be filled from anlther botle meaning you wont get a compleatly filled tank as the 2 tanks conected to fill will only equalize presher so you will end up a lil light in the fill.and some places will just swop out the tank weather you own or rent meaning you wont have to worry about certifications and you will get a true fill not a caskade fill(2 tanks hooked together ) but you may end up with some old ugly looking tanks from time to time, that may or may not bother you. it did bother me and i almost started painting the tanks every time i got a new one untill the wife and i decided on the cover sleeves.see atached pic above

                  so wile it may be better to owne in my area it could well be better to rent in yours, it realy depends a lot on who you get your gass from. and i verry much agree with acx780 on the part about if they dont have time to explain all the pro's and con's to ya then you should be looking some where else. also keep in minde not every one working at the distributer will know what they are doing to some its just another stupid job they hate and dont know didilly about. so be ready with the right questions and if he dosent know the ansers ask for some one that dose.

                  here are some good questions that should get you a good ideal of what you will need to know to make the right choice about buy VS rent

                  1. rental fees for 1yr. and multiple years. it may be a better deal if its a long term rental.

                  2.what sizes do they sell. again they may not sell the size you want.

                  3.do they exchange the bottle's on refill or fill on site.

                  3-1/2. will they fill a bottle you bought some where els, what do you need to prove its your bottle. you might find a beter deal on the bottle some where else but they might fill cheeper here then there but might want a sails slip on the bottle to prove ownership.

                  4.if they fill on site, is it a caskade system or are they a true filling station.remember with a caskade you wont get a full fill, should be close though i would bring a gage with me to check.

                  5. is the filling process different for owned and rented. could be they only swop out rentals and you will have to wait to get an owned bottle back or they will caskade it wile you wait.

                  6.how long do you have to wait to get your bottle back? if they dont swop owned bottles.

                  7. do they charge for cirt. testing? if so how much. some places will cirt. for free if you buy from them, it should be in the purchas agreement, if they say its free make shoure its on your recept(protect yourself).

                  8.delivery options. do they deliver to your shop with rented only tanks or will they diliver eather one? this may not be a consern to you so skip it if ya want but if its part of the rental $$$ you might as well get what you are paying for

                  thease are just the ones of the top of my head, so maybee others will pop in with something i forgot or you might even have one i missed. be an informed shopper, if you dont know what you are asking about they will not always give you all the info you need, especilly if they dont know. and again if they wont take the time to anser thease basic questions about ther service go some where else.

                  sorry about the book but i hope it helps
                  james
                  thanks for the help
                  ......or..........
                  hope i helped
                  sigpic
                  feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
                  summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                  JAMES

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by acx780
                    I while back I got into the rental deal with a local distributor. I had a small engine repair shop and did more mechanical work than anything else. I had a medium sized O/A setup and really did'nt do much with it. Back then I might refill twice a year. I figured I was that far ahead for not shelling out the cash to own until I got hit with what they called the Demmarage fee. I still dont know what it was but I know it was about $75.00 a year. I sold that shop (at a profit, go figure) and the setup went with it and so did that fee. I got back into welding recently and spent a bunch of money. I bought all my tanks (including spares) and all my stuff from one distributor. I thought about renting but I knew what I wanted in size, type etc. so it was'nt a trial thing. I knew I was'nt going to sell this stuff unless I was upgrading (larger) and this distributor said I could trade in and upgrade the tanks anytime. The trade in value is what the tank is going for today, not what I payed for it. The price of the tanks is only going to go up. For the price of the refill they swap my bottles and although some dont look as pretty as others I figure I'm getting tested, full bottles every time. I dont worry about paying testing fees, replacing valves or tanks because I'm geting "new" tanks every time and I know the inspections are current. The additional money for upgrades, it turns out, is just the additional fill fee so I decided there was no real benifit to renting. As far as I can tell buying in my situation gives me the same benefits as renting without the additional costs over time. Your situation might go in the other direction but you wont know without talking to the guy(s) at the distributor. If they are'nt interested in talking to you and explaining your options then you probably should'nt be interested in spending your money there.
                    When my dad worked at Corning Glass in Muskogee he told me Corning would return full Oxygen bottles at the 30 day mark rather than pay 10 cents a day demurge. The price of a full bottle included 30 days rent.
                    Dennis


                    Thermal Arc 185-TSW
                    Millermatic Challenger 172
                    VictorO/A
                    Atlas Craftsman 12 by 24 Lathe
                    Esab PCM-875
                    Wholesale Tool Mill-Drill

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Cylinders/Gases

                      I work for PRAXAIR, our policy is to "exchange" bottles with "naked" neckrings. NO MATTER WHO's THEY ARE. If you are EVER exchanging cylinders, PLEASE MAKE sure you leave with a "naked" cylinder neckring to prevent any problems!!! If you wish to buy a cylinder, with C-25 gas ( argon-co2), or straight argon, we discount them. (although alot of welders are now using a tri mix of co2, argon, and helium for smoother welds, less splatter, & fumes) A "Q" size cylinder, or 80 cuft runs around $90.00 with the 1st fill free. An "S" size cylinder, or 150 cuft runs around $130.00 (1st fill free). A "K" cylinder ( 330 cuft)---- we don't sell, (nor a "T"- 360 cuft), as we, in America, are having a "steel" issue, thereby causing of lot more issues as far as steel cylinders go. But rest assured, we, @ PRAXAIR do NOT take cylinders with "existing" competitors names on them, therefor I wish to inform you, you're better off "buying" your cylinders, and when you refill them, make sure, on the "exchange" that they give you a cylinder with a "naked" neckring, and the hydrotesting date is not going to expire while they are in your posession. Also, in the state of California, YOU MUST HAVE A CYLINDER CAP on your cylinders while transporting them. These caps run about $8.00 each, so if you come into any industrial supply facility to have your bottles filled, or exchange, you DON'T need a receipt, but you must HAVE a cylinder cap! And your HYDROTEST date, must be stamped on your cylinder, and it MUST be current, or you, again, pay an approximate $18.00 for a HYDROTEST fee. Thank U State of California. I hope this infor helps someone........Renting IS NOT BETTER!
                      : I sell Miller, still just a girl learning to "use" Miller. Thanks for your patience!!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The first thing you need to do is visit every welding distributor in the area you live. Find out what their policies are in reference to filling/exchanging cylinders. Keep in mind that welding supply companies come and go. I have been at the same distributorship for 21 years and I have seen some come and go....even big ones. Make sure that if you buy your cylinders and that paticular distributorship closes up you can be serviced by another distributor in your area. If you can't, then the money you shelled out to "buy" cylinders is gone bye-bye.
                        We don't sell any cylinder above 60 cu. ft.. When it comes to a customer owned cylinder, we will fill it, but you have to sign a statement of ownership form and we record the cylinder type, size and serial number. This is a real inconvenience for the customer, paticularly when they visit our branch stores. It may take up to 2 weeks to get their cylinder back if they bring it in the day after our transfer truck is at our branch store. The transfer truck only stops once per week at each of our 3 branches. So the following week the truck would pick up the empty and return it the week after that. Now some of you may think that's bad service, but to be perfectly honest thats the best we can do. It wouldn't make sence to send a truck 35 - 45 miles to pick up 5 or 6 cylinders or even a dozen or so cylinders just to fill and then shuttle back.
                        This should be some of the concerns you should have when shopping for cylinders. Again I have found by reading the posts in this thread that each area of the country is way different.
                        Rich Ferguson
                        Sales Technician
                        Jackson Welding Supply Co.
                        "Keep America Strong.....Weld It"
                        www.jacksonweldingsupply.com

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          for what its werth :
                          the cap required for transporting is also a law here in NY.
                          thanks for the help
                          ......or..........
                          hope i helped
                          sigpic
                          feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
                          summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
                          JAMES

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by tailshaft56
                            When my dad worked at Corning Glass...
                            Corning Glass is a pretty well known glass company, I currently blow glass at Chico State, CA. We hear about Corning Glass regularly. Do you do any glass blowing of your own? Around here, it seems that if your dad blows glass, you blow glass. (My dad doesn't blow glass)
                            -SPiNNeR-

                            Hobart 135
                            Oxy-Acet w/ Victor torch
                            Dynasty 200 DX

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by fun4now
                              for what its werth :
                              the cap required for transporting is also a law here in NY.
                              I'm pretty sure that the cylinder cap law is a DOT/Federal thing, though there may also be state laws. I could verify that by looking up the specific CFR if anyone cares enough.

                              My experience correlates precisely with what the gentleman that works at Praxair stated. Though the part about "existing competitor's names" might be misleading. Most places put adhesive labels on the cylinders with the company name on 'em, which is not an issue. What they won't do is fill a cylinder with a competitor's name stamped on the neck ring. I've swapped labeled cylinders with no stamp on the neck ring back and forth between Praxair and Airgas without complaint.
                              - Heath

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by TheRealSpinner
                                Corning Glass is a pretty well known glass company, I currently blow glass at Chico State, CA. We hear about Corning Glass regularly. Do you do any glass blowing of your own? Around here, it seems that if your dad blows glass, you blow glass. (My dad doesn't blow glass)
                                Sorry but I haven't blown any glass and my dad never mentioned it either. The plant closed around 20 years ago. What they made were Pyrex globes for coleman lanterns and I think some of the Corning ware cookware. I know at one time they were making glass beads which were meant to pumped down slow producing oil wells. Seems like there were three sizes of those beads.
                                Dennis


                                Thermal Arc 185-TSW
                                Millermatic Challenger 172
                                VictorO/A
                                Atlas Craftsman 12 by 24 Lathe
                                Esab PCM-875
                                Wholesale Tool Mill-Drill

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