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migging 5356 vs 4043 ??????

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  • calweld
    replied
    Originally posted by tigman250
    my friends read Play Boy in the bathroom....i read welding manuals
    If this were a perfect world, we'd have welding manuals with pictures showing Playboy models demonstrating correct proceedures

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  • Sundown
    replied
    Originally posted by tigman250
    i too love what i do, i have tried alot of jobs out liked them all a little bit but i love fabrication the absolute most. it should be illegal to have this much fun and get paid for it! most of my friends read Play Boy in the bathroom....i read welding manuals
    Can't read welding manuals in the bathroom, it's full of my wifes Blair clothing catalogs. I just have to make do with the recliner in the den ... when summer get here it will be back to the deck for me. You are right about fabrication, building metal things is an awsome way to pass the time IMHO.

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  • tigman250
    replied
    Originally posted by Sundown
    I often wondered what precentage of people enjoyed what they are doing, I would bet it isn't very large. I always enjoyed whatever I did on some level, lucky I guess ... great to hear you are having fun ...
    i too love what i do, i have tried alot of jobs out liked them all a little bit but i love fabrication the absolute most. it should be illegal to have this much fun and get paid for it! most of my friends read Play Boy in the bathroom....i read welding manuals

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  • Sundown
    replied
    Originally posted by HAWK
    Sundown,


    Tougher man... No. Well compensated... Yes. Through the years I have found that I always take the jobs nobody else wants. The funny thing is I really enjoy the work.
    I often wondered what precentage of people enjoyed what they are doing, I would bet it isn't very large. I always enjoyed whatever I did on some level, lucky I guess ... great to hear you are having fun ...

    Leave a comment:


  • HAWK
    replied
    Sundown,


    Tougher man... No. Well compensated... Yes. Through the years I have found that I always take the jobs nobody else wants. The funny thing is I really enjoy the work.

    Leave a comment:


  • tigman250
    replied
    Originally posted by wb5jhy
    I noticed the cold starts too. Good to know the preheat was so effective. Disappointed with your findings on the black soot problem. That's what's been bugging me the most. Not set up right now and may not get a chance to run some more beads til this weekend. I'm going to jack up the gas to see what, if any, improvement can be made.

    Tom
    i tired that, went from 20cfm to 50cfm didn't really notice a diffrence, i think the soot is just the nature of the beast. i will have more time to play with it tomarrow, would have finished it today but the steel company didn't deliver the i-beams i needed let me know what you find out.

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  • wb5jhy
    replied
    Originally posted by tigman250
    well today went great with the 5356, the settings were far from where the 4043 settings were though, i thought i could just tweak them a bit to get a spray transfer with the 5356.....not so lucky. i found that a spray transfer was prety much impossible with the 5356 the wire wanted to melt off before really adhearing to the base then you have a large BB that you are puddling on, so i stuck to a short circut transfer and with a few adjustments i kept the spatter to a minimum. one thing i found was a little preheat goes a long ways, just a few seconds with the torch made the starts look much better, without preheat the first inch or so looked very cold then after the part picked up a bit of heat the toes wetted out much better, with a little preheat the cold starts were completly avoided. lastly i found a little weave back and forth was almost a must, i do not use a weave with any other process but with this one i found it a must. and the black soot......i tried everything and found it is something you have to put up with!

    just wanted to let you all know what i found out and hopefully it will in turn make your next adventure welding with 5356 a little easier.......that is for thoes of you that don't already know this stuff
    I noticed the cold starts too. Good to know the preheat was so effective. Disappointed with your findings on the black soot problem. That's what's been bugging me the most. Not set up right now and may not get a chance to run some more beads til this weekend. I'm going to jack up the gas to see what, if any, improvement can be made.

    Tom

    Leave a comment:


  • tigman250
    replied
    well today went great with the 5356, the settings were far from where the 4043 settings were though, i thought i could just tweak them a bit to get a spray transfer with the 5356.....not so lucky. i found that a spray transfer was prety much impossible with the 5356 the wire wanted to melt off before really adhearing to the base then you have a large BB that you are puddling on, so i stuck to a short circut transfer and with a few adjustments i kept the spatter to a minimum. one thing i found was a little preheat goes a long ways, just a few seconds with the torch made the starts look much better, without preheat the first inch or so looked very cold then after the part picked up a bit of heat the toes wetted out much better, with a little preheat the cold starts were completly avoided. lastly i found a little weave back and forth was almost a must, i do not use a weave with any other process but with this one i found it a must. and the black soot......i tried everything and found it is something you have to put up with!

    just wanted to let you all know what i found out and hopefully it will in turn make your next adventure welding with 5356 a little easier.......that is for thoes of you that don't already know this stuff

    Leave a comment:


  • Sundown
    replied
    Originally posted by HAWK
    I spooled about 200" of 4043 this weekend on a repair job. The 6061 base material was nasty. All the joints were overhead laps inside a pit. I ran spray arc at 25 volts with .035 wire from a TB302G with a #4 wire speed on my 30A spoolgun and 30CFH argon. Soot was minimal, but increased where proper travel angle was not possible to due some of the joints being within 3" of the pit wall. I had no soot welds where I could maintain a 15* angle push and 1" stick out.

    I did not have any cracking problems inside the pit, but a few cracks started on top outside where I welding in the wind. I ground them out and rewelded after adding a second wind break. They turned out fine.

    I probably should have used 5356, but was concerned about the smoke and spatter in the overhead position in a small confined area. The pit is about 4 feet square and 5 feet high. It was hard to maneuver around because the bottom was filled with flanged piping and valves.
    You are a tougher man than I am, hope you got richly compensaited for that job.

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  • HAWK
    replied
    BTW: All surfaces were prepped by hand with a SS brush and wipe with a dry cloth.

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  • HAWK
    replied
    I spooled about 200" of 4043 this weekend on a repair job. The 6061 base material was nasty. All the joints were overhead laps inside a pit. I ran spray arc at 25 volts with .035 wire from a TB302G with a #4 wire speed on my 30A spoolgun and 30CFH argon. Soot was minimal, but increased where proper travel angle was not possible to due some of the joints being within 3" of the pit wall. I had no soot welds where I could maintain a 15* angle push and 1" stick out.

    I did not have any cracking problems inside the pit, but a few cracks started on top outside where I welding in the wind. I ground them out and rewelded after adding a second wind break. They turned out fine.

    I probably should have used 5356, but was concerned about the smoke and spatter in the overhead position in a small confined area. The pit is about 4 feet square and 5 feet high. It was hard to maneuver around because the bottom was filled with flanged piping and valves.

    Leave a comment:


  • tigman250
    replied
    Originally posted by wb5jhy
    Thanks for the replies and thanks to Tigman for letting me piggy back on his original thread.

    Tom
    LOL no harm done this forum is for everyone to learn and enjoy, if you can learn from coming along in one of my threads all the better!

    Leave a comment:


  • wb5jhy
    replied
    Originally posted by barnett64
    Are you "pushing" or "pulling"? for MIG welding Aluminum you need to push to keep gas coverage over the puddle.
    B.
    Well I tried both push and pull. Didn't make too much difference though the beads did look better pushed. Maybe I'll try even more gas flow. I thought 25 should have been enough but maybe not. The soot was just a light and fairly even black layer extending an inch or so on both sides of the bead. After a light brushing the bead looked fine. No visible porosity on the beads and they seem to wet in OK. Didn't want to try spray til I got the black soot thing figured out.
    I don't have a dedicated tank and regulator yet for the spoolgun so I robbed the set off my tig unit to make a test run on the spoolgun before I posted feedback to the Ebay seller. I think the gun works fine. I just need to get a new gas set up and practice a little more with it.

    Thanks for the replies and thanks to Tigman for letting me piggy back on his original thread.

    Tom

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  • calweld
    replied
    Normally mig aluminum you push the weld . . . the argon goes ahead of you, and gives you some cleaning action. If you push, any soot will nomally be on the sides of the weld, if you pull, the weld itself will be sooty. Dirtier material seems to make more soot, also poor shielding gas coverage. Keep the nozzle clean (better coverage) and flow rates usually need to be quite high (30 -40, sometimes more) for aluminum.

    I do 90% repair work, I have found 5356 the best suited for this -- 4043 tends to crack, and doesn't handle impurities as well . . . Used aluminum seems to have impurities, no matter how much cleaning you do . . it seems to absorb into the metal, you can't get it out completely. I do a lot of trailer floors, you never seem to get them completely clean, also big livestock trailers -- definitely not clean I find if I try to spray I get incomplete coverage and fusion -- so I set it more short-arc it directs the arc better, I have better control of the puddle, but also creates more spatter and more pronounced ripples in the weld (you will have this with 5356 anyway). The kind of things I'm usually doing this doesn't matter, nobody cares what they look like only that they do the job. New material, 4043 looks much better and goes on cleaner, 5356 will spray but I've never got it to look as good as 4043.

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  • tigman250
    replied
    Originally posted by jolane
    I am interested in hearing the solution to this also. I have only tried 5356 in my 3035 and MM210, and expressed some of my feelings about the setup in another thread. I cannot get a nice bead. Maybe I need to try some 4043 and see what happens.

    On a side note, I did try the 5356 on some thick aluminum bar, maybe 5/8" + thick, and when I turned up the feedrate and voltage, it seemed to be spraying away. I have no idea though when to use spray relative to material thickness.

    Anxiously watching this thread...
    Joshua
    yes pick up some 4043, i think you will be pleasently suprised! i find it much easier to run!

    i still have some things to try before i give up on the 5356 totally....i mean welding is welding right

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