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Pulser/Sequencer question - Tube Adapters

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  • shadetreewelder
    replied
    Originally posted by Matt@RFR
    All I'm trying to do here is bump the efficiency of my operation up more. The pulser has nothing to do with looks (at 150pps? Come on.) As a matter of fact, I'd prefer a smooth weld with no ripples since it would technically get rid of stress risers.

    And don't forget the 18 seconds of post flow.

    This isn't life or death, sure, but I'm not going to ditch the sequencer just because it'll be easier. I'm doing this right now so I can look back in 5 years and hopefully see the time this has saved.

    Aside from that, the sequencer helps my weak eyes over a few hours of welding, since all I have to worry about is feeding filler.
    You should listen to Engloid, when it come to Tig he is one of the best out there...

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt@RFR
    replied
    All I'm trying to do here is bump the efficiency of my operation up more. The pulser has nothing to do with looks (at 150pps? Come on.) As a matter of fact, I'd prefer a smooth weld with no ripples since it would technically get rid of stress risers.

    And don't forget the 18 seconds of post flow.

    This isn't life or death, sure, but I'm not going to ditch the sequencer just because it'll be easier. I'm doing this right now so I can look back in 5 years and hopefully see the time this has saved.

    Aside from that, the sequencer helps my weak eyes over a few hours of welding, since all I have to worry about is feeding filler.

    Leave a comment:


  • Engloid
    replied
    Ditch the sequencer settings...all of them. Use a foot pedal fast pulse, and dab in your wire.

    These welds should take you anywhere from 10-30 seconds each, if set up properly.

    The welds below were done on a turntable, holding torch by hand, with no pulse, or a fast pulse (10pps or more).
    http://mywebpages.comcast.net/engloi...s/cunipipe.jpg
    http://mywebpages.comcast.net/engloi...cs/flange2.jpg
    http://mywebpages.comcast.net/engloi...cs/ni400-7.jpg

    I posted links, rather than images here...so I wouldn't screw up your thread with pics of other people's work.

    So, my advice:
    1) use the foot pedal or thumb control
    2) pulse 10-20pps
    3) background 70%
    4) peak time 80%
    5) dab the wire in to make your ripples, don't depend on a pulse to make them.
    6) turn the sequencer off.

    ...or just send them to me and I'll do them.

    Leave a comment:


  • dandimand
    replied
    If you just seeking a wire feeder look on ebay im sure there are some on there for sale or check around your local welding stores pretty much every bigger wire feed machine uses these and im sure you could get by with that as you dont really need a pulse if you can use the pulse on your tig machine. then you buy one spool of wire that will probably last you months of use make sure you put on a cleaner before the wire if your shop is dirty or dusty .I know these feeders are cheap as i sold my old cp200 miller with a hobart feeder for 500 . basically all you have to do is just run a liner from the wire feeder you know the part that goes inside the mig gun and clamp it on the end close to where you want to run the wire into your root start your tig you may have to play with your parameters for a day or two to get it perfect adjust your wfs to suit and your rotation etc... . I know this will work as ive done it many times on round parts in the past . and the repeatabilty is excellent as well as appearance of weld. ps make sure if your getting a wire feeder to get a 115 v unit as i think some of the miller units are lower voltage.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt@RFR
    replied
    Man, the CK WF-3 looks like it'd do the job nicely. I'll keep it in mind for when I can justify something like that. Anybody know how much they cost new? $3,000?

    more than likely your welding to a mild steel tube adaptor
    They are definetely 4130N. I asked.

    you may even be able to get by with one of the external wire feeders that have a 115 v outlet they can be had quite cheap and just pulse and adjust your wire feed speed to suit
    I'm intrigued. Do you have any links to websites or atleast name brands that I can read up on?

    Thanks guys.

    Leave a comment:


  • dandimand
    replied
    Ok if your just feeding the wire by hand then why can you not use a foot pedal i would assume as you want someone else to do it that doesnt have the skill with a foot pedal? The reason i recommended 70s2 is more than likely your welding to a mild steel tube adaptor plus i dont think you need the tensile strength or hardness of the 80s2 . Ok on that note if your feeding by hand then I would turn my pulse down to anywhere between 2 to 6 pps depending on how close you want your dimes and just push the 1/16 filler in the joint . If you can afford it though i think a cold wire feeder may be the ticket you may even be able to get by with one of the external wire feeders that have a 115 v outlet they can be had quite cheap and just pulse and adjust your wire feed speed to suit . ps you dont need a #8 cup for such a small tung you could go with a #6 .Cold wire feeders have been around for years most aluminum railing companys use them for production parts.I misunderstood what you meant about your ramp time i assumed you were slowly ramping up to your amperage not down sorry my mistake .also the other reason i recommend 70s2 or s6 is you may already have mig wire and its cheap and plenitful to buy . Im sure you could set up what you need with an old hobart or miller 115 volt feeder with an on off switch for under 400.00 as like i say there are thousands of these older units out there.

    Leave a comment:


  • joebass
    replied
    http://www.ckworldwide.com/coldwire.htm

    If I had some production parts I would look into this. They can be had onj Ebay for about 1000.00 sometimes. It doesnt completely automate the process they make manual cold wire torches.

    Leave a comment:


  • Billet Benny
    replied
    Matt,
    A cold wire feeder will completely automate the process. I don't think you want to look into that yet. It's expensive and I believe needs to communicate with your machine and I don't know if your Dynasty is setup to do that. I'm not sure on this, but I think it's the LX models that are more capable in that situation.

    I post up later when I have some time about er70s-2 vs. er80s-d2, but in your situation I'm sure you're just fine.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt@RFR
    replied
    No offense man, but your post is REALLY hard to understand.

    I'm feeding filler by hand, and in fact don't even know what a cold wire feeder is! I'll have to look in to that.

    your ramp up time i would think should be lower as it seems to me when i weld 4130 i want to get a puddle right away and start moving .
    Dude, my initial amperage is 105. It puddles almost instantly. And I'm ramping down, not up.

    if your only doing 100 of these per month is it really worth it I would just do them by hand
    It is when I'm the only one in the shop, and I still have to build the rest of the suspension kits that these control arms go to.

    i would also use 70s2
    Why? I've done my own research on this subject, as well as reading everything I can on it, and am comfortable with my decision. If you disagree, please tell me why.

    I'm off to look at cold wire feeders. Thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • dandimand
    replied
    are you useing a cold wire feeder with a pulse on the wirefeeder . I would use this if its a production setup and turn the pulses down lower and move up the background amperage and i would run around 2 to 5 pps and your ramp up time i would think should be lower as it seems to me when i weld 4130 i want to get a puddle right away and start moving . I have welded these many times for four link tubes on race cars and i would also use 70s2 . i would think the ramp up time should be no more than about 5 seconds . what machine are you using? I use an aerowave full feature . your tube adaptors should be weld prepped on the one end so having penetration going into the threads is a no no for sure and sounds like to me you would be overheating the weld . ps if your only doing 100 of these per month is it really worth it I would just do them by hand . if we are talking thousands then i can see why you would want to do this .ps you could run 1/16 wire perhaps in your cold feeder and just time the dabs and just maintain a constant amperage no pulse on weldor and just pulse in with the feeder . personally i would do this .just make a jig to hold the cold wire feeder end at the right angle to the torch head and there you go with a variable speed on your turntable i think this would be the hot ticket . you could ramp up figure out the time you need then ramp down as to not create a crater when you weld over the beginning of the weld at the end . I really think a decent cold wire feeder is the answer .also i would use a 3/32 tung as well as that will give you a little larger puddle and that will help with the convex weld you may be seeing at moment and allow the use of a larger filler .if your not using a cold wire feed at moment and doing this by hand then just use around 2 or 3 pps and forgoe the sequencer and just lay your rod in the root position your torch and just push wire in the root while turning you rotary table.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt@RFR
    replied
    I'm not a huge pulse fan for certain applications and this probably being one of them.
    I hear ya, and two months ago I would've agreed with you. I'm finding I do like the pulse on this part, and it's mainly because of the added filler deposition. When I started doing these on a custom basis, I wasn't using the pulser, and .035" filler worked well. Now with the pulser, .045" filler is **** near too small. I take that as a good sign. In fact, it's starting to work alittle too well... I got to the point where I was actually getting full penetration and screwing up the threads on the adapter, so I backed it down alittle, and I also started angling the torch very slightly towards the tube, accomplishing two things: killing some of the axial penetration on the adapter (which there is plenty) and tying the tube in alittle better.

    From the looks of the weld in the picture I'd want a little more filler, but that's just me and it could be the picture.
    All the welds on these things are either flat or slightly convex, but I agree with you, and the current welds have much more filler in them. My dabs can't be more than about .030" apart now.

    I prefer er70s-2 in most cases, but that's a different subject.
    Might as well touch on this. I use 70S on any 4130N weldment that will see torsional or bending loads (chassis, etc.), but on this part, which will only see pure tension/compression loads, I chose to go with the 80S for it's higher tensile numbers, and only slightly worse elasticity. Do you agree?

    Also, penetration is not super important in this instance because we're dealing with .095 wall tube. Penetration comes easy, fusion is key.
    You're absolutely right. I didn't spend enough time on my initial posts. Like I said, I'm almost getting too much penetration, and fusion is excellent according to my acid etching tests. I'll try to get pictures of all this posted, but it won't be until after this weekend.

    I understand your sequencing now. In this case maybe try a slightly lower travel speed. Also you're thinking of lengthening initial slope is a good one. Also give your main amps a small bump up if that won't burn up near the end of the weld.
    Well, slower travel speeds do help, but if I go slow enough to get rid of the cold spot (allow things to heat up sufficiently), then it would be much much faster to forget the sequencer and just use the pedal!

    Concerning turning up the main amperage, I tried, and it turns out that I'm right on the edge right now. Another 2-4 amps and I get some dull grey in the last maybe 1/4" of the weld. In fact, I'd realy like to turn the main amps down if anything. But, ofcourse, that makes the cold spot worse...just like speeding the intial slope time up....same effect.

    I really think running the rosette welds first, and then immediately running the main weld is the answer. I'll have to back WAY off my initial/main amperage, but I bet it will be fine. I'll do some more testing to make sure though.

    Thanks for helping me work through this Benny. And if this really turns out to be a pain in the ass, I'll forget it until I can maybe look into a real full auto rig. (BIG money!)

    Leave a comment:


  • Billet Benny
    replied
    Originally posted by Matt@RFR
    The pulser is letting me get a surprising amount of penetration and filler deposited over not using the pulser, without overheating the weldment. Two of the major concerns with welding 4130N: 1) It's really sensitive to overall heat input and 2) dillution with the (dissimilar alloy) filler metal if the weldment will not see any PWHT, which these won't. I bring up dillution because, my understanding is the more filler you can stuff in the weld, the better the dillution (or opportunity for dillution) will be.
    I know about welding normalized 4130. It is somewhat sensitive to heat but more sensitive to too little filler dilution. I'm not a huge pulse fan for certain applications and this probably being one of them. But if you're happy with how it's working that's fine. The more filler you can stuff in, yes, the much better! I prefer er70s-2 in most cases, but that's a different subject. From the looks of the weld in the picture I'd want a little more filler, but that's just me and it could be the picture. Also, penetration is not super important in this instance because we're dealing with .095 wall tube. Penetration comes easy, fusion is key.


    Originally posted by Matt@RFR
    Easy, if I back the initial slope down, the problem gets worse, ie: The cold portion happens sooner and lasts longer with a shorter initial slope time.

    Also, you're thinking about it wrong. I'm ramping down from my initial amperage, not up.


    I'm running as fast as physically possible right now. Any faster and the weld will either undercut or it'll be concave.
    My bad. I understand your sequencing now. In this case maybe try a slightly lower travel speed. Also you're thinking of lengthening initial slope is a good one. Also give your main amps a small bump up if that won't burn up near the end of the weld. There is a perfect medium here for your technique and travel speed. It's all a matter of trail and error from this point.


    Originally posted by Matt@RFR
    the more I automate things, the faster and more consistent they will be.
    I couldn't agree more.



    Post up some more pictures.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt@RFR
    replied
    So this is done with the operator holding the torch and the part in a positioner correct?
    Correct.

    What do u think 150 pps is doing for u?
    The pulser is letting me get a surprising amount of penetration and filler deposited over not using the pulser, without overheating the weldment. Two of the major concerns with welding 4130N: 1) It's really sensitive to overall heat input and 2) dillution with the (dissimilar alloy) filler metal if the weldment will not see any PWHT, which these won't. I bring up dillution because, my understanding is the more filler you can stuff in the weld, the better the dillution (or opportunity for dillution) will be.

    And what have you found that makes you want to do a 25 second ramp up?
    Easy, if I back the initial slope down, the problem gets worse, ie: The cold portion happens sooner and lasts longer with a shorter initial slope time.

    Also, you're thinking about it wrong. I'm ramping down from my initial amperage, not up.

    ...and higher travel speed.
    I'm running as fast as physically possible right now. Any faster and the weld will either undercut or it'll be concave.

    Are your operators not skilled enough to do this without the trigger hold?
    It's just me as of right now. Even when I do have an employee or two, they will be skilled enough (or I wouldn't hire them), but even then, the more I automate things, the faster and more consistent they will be.

    Leave a comment:


  • Billet Benny
    replied
    So this is done with the operator holding the torch and the part in a positioner correct? What do u think 150 pps is doing for u? And what have you found that makes you want to do a 25 second ramp up? You may want to do this with less ramp up, more amperage, and higher travel speed. That will really help consistency when operators get the rhythm. I assuming the adequate heat, cold, adequate heat is caused by the slow ramp up (adequate heat input), too little amperage (cold), whole part heats up (adequate). Are your operators not skilled enough to do this without the trigger hold?

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt@RFR
    replied
    http://www.chassisshop.com/pdf/connections.pdf

    Leave a comment:

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