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Need advice welding chromoly roll-bar

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  • #46
    Originally posted by billygilsbach
    here is an f-body c/m roll bar all positions don't let these guys scare you it just sounds like they don't have much experience with moly.just take your time and practice a little btw/ any of you guys know why most store bought roll bars are made of .134 when nhra min. is .118?
    p.s.fear miller /god of welding
    p.s.s. paul teutel jr. sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Very nice. Is this your car? Did you custom make this roll bar? Its beautiful.

    Thanks
    Miller dynasty 200dx

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by All Positions
      Very nice. Is this your car? Did you custom make this roll bar? Its beautiful.

      Thanks
      not my car,a friend.i bend all of my own bars.here is a pic of a chassis i just built.thanks for the complement.you were asking about adding an x brace i will pm you with a couple of tips and pics of the tools i use,later.
      Attached Files
      the best tool you have is not in your tool box,it is in your head!p.s.o.c.c sucks!

      Comment


      • #48
        i guess i can't pm you ,why don't you allow emails so i can send you some stuff,it will make your life alot easier and your job turn out much more professional looking
        the best tool you have is not in your tool box,it is in your head!p.s.o.c.c sucks!

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by billygilsbach
          i guess i can't pm you ,why don't you allow emails so i can send you some stuff,it will make your life alot easier and your job turn out much more professional looking
          Email me at ls1fire@hotmail.com
          Miller dynasty 200dx

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by billygilsbach
            not my car,a friend.i bend all of my own bars.here is a pic of a chassis i just built.thanks for the complement.you were asking about adding an x brace i will pm you with a couple of tips and pics of the tools i use,later.

            Holy smokes, there's almost as much steel in that thing as a cup car! What's this car's class's minimum weight?

            Comment


            • #51
              I was wondering if maybe they had a truck load of steel minimum instead.

              How many feet of tube is in that sucker?
              Syncrowave 250DX
              Invison 354MP
              XR Control and 30A

              Airco MED20 feeder
              Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 81
              Smith O/A rig
              And more machinery than you can shake a 7018 rod at

              Comment


              • #52
                every bar is there for a reason,the whole bare chassis only weighs 275# the complete car will come in around 25xx.min weight is 2650.should run 6.60's.motor makes about 2100
                Attached Files
                the best tool you have is not in your tool box,it is in your head!p.s.o.c.c sucks!

                Comment


                • #53
                  email sent
                  the best tool you have is not in your tool box,it is in your head!p.s.o.c.c sucks!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by billygilsbach
                    every bar is there for a reason,the whole bare chassis only weighs 275# the complete car will come in around 25xx.min weight is 2650.should run 6.60's.motor makes about 2100

                    That is a very cool looking drag car. Like the style.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      thanks benny,alot of work in that body to get it to sit 46" to the roof w/ a 34.5 tall tire.
                      the best tool you have is not in your tool box,it is in your head!p.s.o.c.c sucks!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        look here

                        http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowl...hrome-moly.asp
                        pakmanmotorsports.net

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Old Welder

                          Hello All Position...
                          I qualified numerous weld procedures for Nuc Work years ago and thought this may be interesting reading; this is from the Lincoln Weld Filler Material Link:

                          TIG WELD 4130!
                          The Lincoln Electric Company, Welding Services. June 2000

                          Yes, you can TIG weld 4130 tubing up to .120" wall thickness easily with the techniques and procedures described in this bulletin. Answered are the top ten most frequently asked questions about TIG welding 4130 Chrome-Moly. These attached procedures apply to typical sporting applications such as experimental airplanes, racing car frames, roll cages, go-carts, bicycles, and motorcycle frames. The suitability of these techniques and procedures must be evaluated for your specific application.

                          Q. Can I weld 4130 using the TIG process?
                          A. Yes, 4130 Chrome-Moly has been TIG welded in the aerospace and aircraft industries for years. As with all welding, proper procedures and techniques must be followed.

                          Q. Do I need to pre-heat?
                          A. Thin wall tubing (< 0.120" wall) applications do not typically require the normal 300ºF to 400ºF pre-heat to obtain acceptable results. However, tubing should be at room temperature (70ºF) or above before welding.


                          Q. What filler material do I use?
                          A. Although there are several good filler materials, ER80S-D2, is one you should consider. This filler material is capable of producing welds that approximate the strength of 4130. ER-70S-2 is an acceptable alternative to ER80S-D2, as is ER70S-6, although the weld strength will be slightly lower.

                          Q. When I use ER70S-2 filler material, do I give up strength for elongation?
                          A. Yes. The filler material, when diluted with the parent material, will typically undermatch the 4130. However, with the proper joint design (such as cluster or gusset, for example), the cross-sectional area and linear inches of weld can compensate for the reduced weld deposit strength.

                          Q. Why is 4130 filler metal not recommended?
                          A. 4130 filler typically is used for applications where the weld will be heat treated. Due to its higher hardness and reduced elongation, it is not recommended for sporting applications such as experimental airplanes, race car frames, roll cages, etc.

                          Q. Can I weld 4130 using any other filler metals?
                          A. Some fabricators prefer to use austenitic stainless steel fillers to weld 4130 tubing. This is acceptable provided 310 or 312 stainless steel fillers are used. Other stainless steel fillers can cause cracking. Stainless filler material is typically more expensive.

                          Q. Do I need to heat treat (stress relieve) 4130 after welding?
                          A. Thin wall tubing normally does not require stress relief. For parts thicker than .120", stress-relieving is recommended and 1,100ºF is the optimum temperature for tubing applications. An Oxy/Acetylene torch with neutral flame can be used. It should be oscillated to avoid hot spots.


                          Q. Do I have to pre-clean 4130 material?
                          A. Remove surface scale and oils with mild abrasives and acetone. Wipe to remove all oils and lubricants. All burrs should be removed with a hand scraper or de-burring tool. Better welding results with clean materials.

                          Q. Do I need to back-purge 4130 material?
                          A. Backpurging is not normally necessary, although some fabricators do. It will not hurt the weld and may improve the root pass of some welds.
                          .

                          Q. Should I quench the metal after I finish welding?
                          A. ABSOLUTELY NOT! Rapid quenching of the metal will create problems such as cracking and lamellar tearing. Always allow the weld to slow cool.

                          More Information on TIG Welding Chrome-Moly 4130

                          Find out more about Lincoln Electric's professional line of TIG welders here
                          Or, check out Lincoln cut length TIG welding filler metals here

                          WELDING SPECIFICATION: Aircraft and Motorsports

                          GENERAL INFORMATION

                          Remove all oxides and burrs within 3" of weld area.
                          Acetone wipe to remove all cutting oils.
                          Assemble and tack weld in joint in a minimum of four (4) places with TIG.
                          Tubing should be at minimum temperature of 70ºF (room temperature.
                          TIG weld per parameters specified using Lincoln's Precision TIG™: The Power To Perform. 185, 275 or 375.
                          EXAMPLE WELD SCHEDULE INFORMATION

                          PARENT MATERIAL: 4130
                          MATERIAL CONDITION: Condition (N)
                          MATERIAL THICKNESS: .035" Wall Thickness
                          FILLER MATERIAL: ER80S-D2 .035" Diameter
                          JOINT TYPE: 90º Tube to Tube.
                          JOINT PREP: Abrasive Clean/Acetone Wipe
                          JOINT GAP: .000-.010
                          CURRENT TYPE: D.C.E.N. (DC Electrode Negative)
                          AMPERAGE: 20 - 40 amps
                          VOLTAGE: 9-12 Volts
                          TORCH TYPE: LA-9 or LW-20 Magnum TIG Torch
                          CUP SIZE: Gas Lens 7/16" Orifice
                          CUP TYPE: Ceramic
                          TUNGSTEN TYPE: 2% Thoriated
                          TUNGSTEN SIZE: 1/16" Diameter
                          TUNGSTEN SHAPE: Pointed
                          TORCH GAS: Argon
                          FLOW RATE: 15-25 C.F.H.
                          BACK-UP GAS: Argon
                          FLOW RATE: 5-10 C.F.H.
                          TACKING SEQUENCE: 4-Places (min.)

                          FILLER MATERIAL OPTIONS:

                          Option #1 ER80S-D2
                          Option #2 ER70S-2
                          Option #3 ER70S-6

                          FOOTNOTE: Welding properties change from operator to operator. Techniques such as travel speed, filler type, filler deposition rates, amperage, gas shielding, and arc voltage (distance between tungsten and weld puddle) all have an effect towards heat input, weld strength, and elongation.

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                          • #58
                            billygilsbach

                            Can i get a copy of your x brace info?

                            ridingswelding@sbcglobal.net

                            Thanks, Mike.
                            Mike. R


                            Dynasty 300dx tig runner w/ 3 torch Versa-Tig torch changer {wt-20f, wt-24f, mt-125**
                            MM 251/30a/4015 roughneck
                            Miller portable spot welder
                            Inferno >>> Big Window Elite

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                            • #59
                              http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowl...hrome-moly.asp
                              http://www.rcautoworks.com

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Question for Dandimand

                                I was following this post as I've had similar questions and I saw the link to your site. I viewed the pics of the Stang chassis build-up. I don't know much about chassis, but it does look like you do very nice work. Are those tubes mild steel, DOM? Also, the pic of the rear end housing attached to the 4 link had me wondering how the wishbone mounted atop the housing doesn't bind the suspension. I've seen 4 link set-ups with a diagonal to "locate" or center the housing. I've also seen a 4 link minus the two upper bars with the wishbone which I suspect might be called a "3" link. It must take lots of mock up and attention to instant centers. I hope I'm using the correct terms. I have the book, "Door Slammers" somewhere, but haven't looked at it in a while. If I could start life over again, I would probably have gone into fabrication and not be doing home loans. Just out of curiosity, what does a fabricator make? Not the guy who owns the business, but an employee. Obviously, if I turned in my tie and calculator to be a fabricator, I'd be an employee. I'm asking specifically about cars and chassis fab.
                                I drag race and that's led to welding - both as hobbies.

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