No announcement yet.

230 volt outlet for maxstar 150stl

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 230 volt outlet for maxstar 150stl

    Hello everyone, I have been reading threads on this forum for a couple of weeks and done alot of research on inverter welders. I have decided on the miller maxstar 150stl tig/stick combo package.Will be using it for home projects in stick and tig modes. I do have some questions. My 230 volt 30 amp plug in the garage is a 3 prong not 4 prong which means it doesnt have a separate ground wire, only 2 hot wires and a neutral. Any one else using a 3 pronge 230 volt for their welders? Most of my tig work will be on mild steel and stainless steel, should I be using straight argon?
    Thanks to all who respond, Im sure I will have more questions in the near future.

  • #2
    Is this a dryer receptacle? If so, it's dedicated from the main panel, right, not a subpanel?

    In your main panel the neutral and ground busses are bonded together.

    I would go ahead and use it, making an adapter to go from your Maxstar to the dryer receptacle, putting the ground into the neutral prong. This way you don't have to alter any wiring in the wall.

    Excellent choice in machine; let us know how you like it, or if there is something different than the conditions I've described with your wiring.


    • #3
      Oh, and yes, use pure argon for TIG on just about everything, unless you need the extra oomph from an expensive Helium blend...

      And yes, I powered my MM175, my PowCon 300SM, my Spectrum 375, my air compressor, and my Maxstar 140 STR all from from a 3-prong dryer receptacle for a year, none at the same time of course.


      • #4
        2 hots and a GROUND

        You have 2 hots and a ground for 230/240 1 phase.
        Grounds and neutrals are not the same thing, do not inter-change them.
        With the circuit off open the cover and check the wire color and check where it is landed in your panel. If is it white and landed in the main panel on the neutral bus then it is a neutral.......If it is green or bare copper and landed on the ground bar in the main panel it is a ground................
        If it was done correctly...Only check this if you feel comfortable doing so...if not hire an electrician that knows what they are doing.


        • #5
          In a main panel it wouldnt make any difference, in a sub it will.


          • #6
            Welcome & congrats on your new 150 STL, I had one for over a year and loved it. I recently traded up to a 150 STH and it's just that much better.
            Regards, George

            Hobart Handler 210 w/DP3035 - Great 240V small Mig
            Hobart Handler 140 - Great 120V Mig
            Hobart Handler EZ125 - IMO the best 120V Flux Core only machine

            Miller Dynasty 200DX with cooler of my design, works for me
            Miller Spectrum 375 - Nice Cutter


            • #7
              A three-wire dryer receptacle really is two hots and a neutral. The ground is bonded to the neutral at the dryer and in the main panel. Of course, this is why the new system is a 4-wire plug and receptacle.


              • #8

                Not trying to get under your skin.............
                But "WE" have no way of knowing what "he" has in place....
                What you or I do at home is not the case. I wired my house when I built it, not his. I have owned homes that I was not there when it was wired and have found some very interesting stuff as well as illegal, most signed off by the local building inspector.
                I will agree all neutrals should be bonded at the main panel.
                But I can not recomend a neutral being used as a ground in the field ! ! !
                We have no idea who or what has been tied to that neutral and if we use it as a ground for this circuit, we could have voltage on a ground, and have it feed back on this circuit..... NOT GOOD = ZAPPP

                Just as an example, how many people posting here are having issues with GFI's? ? ?
                Most if not all are because of ground, neutral issues.

                All I can say is we only know what we know, what "they" tell us........
                If everyone knew everything "we" needed to know to figure it out, they for the most part would not be asking.

                I say all of this with the utmost respect to your knowledge. I have read a lot of your post and replies and have always agreed with them....except this one.



                • #9
                  "Just as an example, how many people posting here are having issues with GFI's? ? ?
                  Most if not all are because of ground, neutral issues."
                  Please elaborate on this. As for grounding a 230V circuit it MUST end up back on neutral at the main panel, this is grounding for this circuit. It is bonded to ground at this point, you dont even need an equipment ground bar in a main panel, the only real reason to have one is if there are not enough spaces for wire terminations on the neutral bar. If the main was not bonded to ground for some reason an equipment bar would be almost useless, a ground rod to earth will not pass enough current to clear a fault, I forget the % but the circuit for ground needs to be able to pass 600% (maybe Hank or Mac can elaborate) for X amount of time to allow for a breaker to trip. (simplified) an earth ground is never to be used as a sole grounding means.
                  I agree, he should tell us the source for this circuit, main or sub and how many wires are feeding this sub.


                  • #10
                    not to hyjack this thread

                    Mac recently gave a great explanation of how GFI’s work.

                    The neutral and ground should only be bonded at the main panel, that is the only place, not at a sub panel or J-boxes in the field.

                    When I have seen issues with tripping GFI’s that was not because of faulty appliance, it has been due to somebody crossing a neutral from another circuit in the field, i.e. a neutral is a neutral, white is white type of thinking. Take that one step further and since the neutral and the ground should be bonded at the panel, then what is the difference between a ground and a neutral?
                    This is the way most people think, that I have dealt with.
                    Next, somebody decides they are going to wire something themselves, great, now they unhook a bundle of grounds all nutted together because it’s just a ground and “can’t be hot” line of thinking and ZAP……….
                    Grounding is just another example, people start adding grounds because they think that more and bigger are better, but the main, best ground needs to be at the panel and all grounds coming back to this point via wire, not water pipes. Stray voltage will always take the course of least resistance and if it’s the water pipe because it has less resistance and you are taking the pipes a part and your left hand is on one side and your right hand is on the other, you become the link………..

                    When posts come up from people who can’t hook up the plug on their new welder, it scares the **** out of me. The manual is very clear (after all the attorneys get done).
                    They should IMO get somebody to come over and help them, electrician or someone who is confident in their ability, not just anybody responding to their post, myself included.

                    I’m not trashing anybody here, just seen enough smoke let out to know better.


                    • #11
                      Terminology, and different folks interpretation of the terms, is often a cause for wiring "discontinuities". The term "neutral" is really a misnomer. The white wire everyone refers to as neutral is really the "grounded conductor", and is a current carrying conductor in all single-phase 120v circuits. "Grounded conductor" means that this wire is connected to the utility company transformer's grounded conductor. The reason for the bond between the green "equipment grounding conductor" and the "grounded conductor" in the main panel only is that this is the actual trip current path in case of a ground fault, NOT the driven ground system! The driven ground is only there for hazard protection from lightning strikes or power crosses. The reason that the "equipment grounding conductor" is kept isolated from the "grounded (neutral) conductor everywhere else is so that there is a discrete path for ground faults to travel back to the main service entrance, and then to ground through the bond.

                      Hope that made sense!

                      ...from the Gadget Garage
                      Millermatic 210 w/3035, BWE
                      Handler 210 w/DP3035
                      Victor O/A "J" series, SuperRange


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by trickcloud
                        My 230 volt 30 amp plug in the garage is a 3 prong not 4 prong which means it doesnt have a separate ground wire, only 2 hot wires and a neutral.
                        He told us already what he had. And since this is what should be expected in a 3-wire dryer receptacle, I had no reason to doubt him...

                        You DID tell him to make sure, yes. But you incorrectly stated that the 3rd wire should be expected to be a ground in this installation. Not a big deal for this installation, however.


                        • #13

                          The white wire everyone refers to as neutral is really the "grounded conductor", and is a current carrying conductor in all single-phase 120v circuits.
                          This is where I think people start to get confused.
                          Thinking that the "HOT" is the only live wire.
                          Then we start talking about bonding "neutrals" with "grounds".
                          Treat every wire as if it hot. That helps keep the smoke in the wire


                          • #14
                            I have checked the 230 volt dryer plug, it has one 10 gauge black wire, one 10 gauge white wire, and a bare copper wire in the neutral slot of the outlet. These wires go to the main panel and connect to two single pole 30 amp breakers ganged togather, and the bare copper wire is on the neutral bus bar.
                            There is only one neutral bus bar, do the newer panels have two separate neutral/ground bus bars to actually separate the "neutrals" and "grounds" in a 4 wire system??
                            Anyway, I am also considering a 75 foot extension cord made out of 10 gauge s.o. cord, will that wire size be large enough for the length???
                            Thanks again to all responders, this forum is a great source of information and ideas.


                            • #15
                              A couple of thinfgs here, its not a question of newer or older panels here, its which panel, the main entrance panel does not need a seperate N and ground bar, subs fed with 4 wire do. 2nd, was this actually hooked to a dryer? if so it really didnt have the correct wire although it worked, it should have had a red/black/white wire. If this was a welder circuit the wires would be fine, its a code thing and the bare is never to be used as a current carrying conductor which it would be on a 3 wire dryer circuit. New dryer circuits are now 4 wire. It will make a fine welder circuit for a maxstar. I would run a new wire for a dryer, 3 conductors and ground.