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  • Warping issues/questions

    Ok I'm having some problems with warping on these small pieces I need to weld. Anyways here is what I'm welding. Ok see the 4 bolt holes, remember those.

    http://rcautoworks.com/My%20Pictures/fender-003.jpg

    #1 , what is the thinnest metal I can buy to bolt these to, to prevent warpage, is 11 gauge over doing it ? Or will anything thinner warp ?

    #2 should I buy 1 giant piece to bolt the piece down to, to weld it ? Or can I get away by using 3 pieces and bolting it down to the 3 pieces ?

    Just want to see what route I can take, I probably will just by a giant piece but just want to see what you guys had to say.

    I have two giant pieces right now that they do bolt to, but there jigs I made and I won't get into detail, but there is a bunch of stuff in the way that I can not get the gun to.
    http://www.rcautoworks.com

  • #2
    Is it just the pads with the bolt holes that is giveing you warp problems ?
    To all who contribute to this board.
    My sincere thanks , Pete.

    Pureox OA
    Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
    Miller Syncrowave 250
    Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

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    • #3
      I would use a large 1/4 plate as a jig and bolt the part to it using the holes, then weld as much as possible on the plate. take off and finish the bottom. Do you see yet why they get $400 for a pair of those babys?
      Trailblazer 302g
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      • #4
        i would just clamp it to my welding table and weld it up let it cool then flip it and weld the back in small tacks to keep it from deforming. do you have a nice thick table 1/4" should be fine.

        Do you see yet why they get $400 for a pair of those babys? LOL
        thanks for the help
        ......or..........
        hope i helped
        sigpic
        feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
        summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
        JAMES

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        • #5
          This is one of the areas I've struggled the most with. The key is to move around work piece not doing all of one connection at a time, rather to make a 1" weld on one piece then move and do one on the other leg. I would also recommend clamping it down to a section of say 1/2" plate.

          Peace,

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by burninbriar
            Is it just the pads with the bolt holes that is giveing you warp problems ?
            Well I guess you can say so, basically I have welded these before and I checked the alignment before. And it was fine, after I welded it some of the holes were off.

            Maybe I'm going over board, but I just don't want to do things twice.

            Originally posted by dyn88
            Do you see yet why they get $400 for a pair of those babys?
            Not really, if you crunched the numbers you would see that there charging a little to much.

            Originally posted by pjseaman
            This is one of the areas I've struggled the most with. The key is to move around work piece not doing all of one connection at a time, rather to make a 1" weld on one piece then move and do one on the other leg. I would also recommend clamping it down to a section of say 1/2" plate.
            Fun4now, I don't have a nice thick table yet

            I have been reading and learning, and thats one of the things I picked up. Its better to weld one area, let it cool, then go back and reweld it. I use to weld the same area, because it was like the piece was preheated. But I changed ever since I read that.

            I'm also using heat fence which works pretty good, it probably would work good enough, but I just want to make sure these do not warp.

            Here is another question though, see the triangle gussets. Well when I weld these, the metal sticking up in the air, either wants to warp back or forward. So do you think it would be better to weld the gussets last, so I can actually brace the one piece of metal sticking up ? Because if I weld the brackets with out the tubes, the bracket that sticks up in the air, well there is no way to hold it down and it wants to warp. Would that be better ? Or would the piece still want to warp, and maybe move the tube and cause misalingments ?

            The triangle gussets I'm talking about so you can get a better idea ( and don't mind the welds, these were just practice pieces )

            http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/90blackcrx/fb1.jpg
            http://www.rcautoworks.com

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            • #7
              from the amount of problems with worpage and what you have said , my gess would be you are over welding this is just as bad if not werse than not enough. if as stated befor you just clamp them down and run small beads (about 1" at a time) you should not have that much truble the metal is thick enough to weld up without having to worpe all over the place on you . i would consider posibly less heat and 1 good bead as aposed to trying to build up or overlap somthing. it looks lie you are working with 1/8" stock witch should weld up nice. if all else fails i would make a jig and bolt it in place to weld it if you cant controle the weld. but i still suspect you are over welding it.
              thanks for the help
              ......or..........
              hope i helped
              sigpic
              feel free to shoot me an e-mail direct i have time to chat. [email protected]
              summer is here, plant a tree. if you don't have space or time to plant one sponsor some one else to plant one for you. a tree is an investment in our planet, help it out.
              JAMES

              Comment


              • #8
                What do you mean over welding it ? To much power you mean ? I don't think I am though. Here is a pic of a bead I layed down, on the same metal.

                http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72...crx/new006.jpg

                http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72...crx/new005.jpg

                http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72...crx/new004.jpg

                http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72...crx/new001.jpg
                http://www.rcautoworks.com

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                • #9
                  If you are going to be produceing these, you should get at least 1/4" steel plate and drill and tap all the holes. That way you can bolt it down and it shouldn't warp. Also it will ensure all your parts bolt up the same. I realize that it may be diffecult to weld some places but you should weld everything you can before unbolting and finishing.

                  Kelly

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                  • #10
                    Is there a left & right version of this? If so tack a pair on your jig and then bolt them together and weld opposing welds on each piece, in other words you want the welds to work against each other.(make sense? if not I'll try again) also it helps to run alittle hot ang go a little faster-puts less heat into the piece.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 90blackcrx
                      What do you mean over welding it ? To much power you mean ? I don't think I am though. Here is a pic of a bead I layed down, on the same metal.
                      Over welding can take many forms, for instance you may not need a continuous bead all the way across the plate or overlapping beeds might not be necessary and so on. One of the most important things to keep in mind is that when the metal gets hot it expands but the cold metal around it keeps the peice from warping at this point so the soft hot metal compacts, as it cools and hardens it contracts pulling the material into a warp. So to prevent this there are several options .
                      1) You can heat the whole peice so it expands and contracts together witch will eliminate stress. (this probably wont be cost eficiant)
                      2) You can lay 3 beeds , 1 on each end and one in the middle so you have more undesturbed cold metal to hold the shape. The weld does not need to be stronger than the surrounding material.
                      3) You can peen the weld to releive the strain causing the warp by essentually stretching the weld side ways.
                      4) you can heat the opposite side of the plate causing the warp process to reverse its self. (this is probably the most stressful on the weld) I have straitened bent sign poles by simply heating the outside of the bend with a torch and when it cools and contracts it pulles the pipe back strait.

                      Clamping or bolting the peice will help but if you dont take measures to prevent the warp in the first place it will still warp when you unbolt it.

                      In this case I would make a solid jig to bolt the part to and run three short beeds and peen them before unbolting it from the jig.
                      I am referring to the flat plate with the weld down the center of it. Any time you weld in the middle of a flat plate warping will be a problem.
                      To all who contribute to this board.
                      My sincere thanks , Pete.

                      Pureox OA
                      Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                      Miller Syncrowave 250
                      Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I believe fun4now is saying that you may not need to weld all of every joint, that is what people usually mean when they say overwelding. That is good advice, as long as you can be sure they will be strong enough. Most steel fabrications dont need to be welded as much as they are. Whenever I'm welding something that needs to bolt to something else, I like to weld as much as I can before attaching the parts with the bolt holes. Jigs definitely need to be built heavy to resist warpage. Consider using heavy box tube or angle iron for a jig, something to give it a strong backbone. Try to design the jig to allow access to as much welding as possible. Try pre-stressing the parts, I mean clamp the part down in a way that will bend it in the opposite direction that the weld will. That way when you're done welding it will be straight ( hopefully ) . Hope I helped

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by stinkinlincoln
                          Try pre-stressing the parts, I mean clamp the part down in a way that will bend it in the opposite direction that the weld will. That way when you're done welding it will be straight ( hopefully ) . Hope I helped
                          Maybe lay a peice of weld wire on the jig so it will be under the weld on the plate and clamp both sides to pre stress over the weld wire.
                          To all who contribute to this board.
                          My sincere thanks , Pete.

                          Pureox OA
                          Westinghouse 300 amp AC stick
                          Miller Syncrowave 250
                          Hexacon 250 watt solder iron

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by thehat
                            Is there a left & right version of this? If so tack a pair on your jig and then bolt them together and weld opposing welds on each piece, in other words you want the welds to work against each other.(make sense? if not I'll try again) also it helps to run alittle hot ang go a little faster-puts less heat into the piece.
                            The jig I have now has many many things in the way, I don't like to go into detail on jigs, but there is no way you can get a gun in there, to run a bead.

                            See thats my problem also, I don't know if I should be welding back and front of the brackets ( on the T welds ) . I thought about it, and thought that it could not hurt. Specially because this is a piece that will be under stress and trying to bend.

                            I will take everything into consideration, I am using this stuff called heat fence, which really works great. I think this alone might be enough, but I also will try to weld one side, stop, let cool and come back and reweld it. I will also bolt down the pieces, but some pieces can't be bolted down, like the vertical pieces, I think I just need to think about it more when welding.

                            Here is the stuff I'm using.

                            https://secure.ramweldingsupply.com/...ew.mcic?s=1708
                            http://www.rcautoworks.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              For what it is worth the welds look cold, lack a good toe wash, and also are somewhat discontinuous. By precluding these factors with better weld technique and heat setings a shorter bead as fun for now and burnbriar mentioned should solve your warpage issues. Also a good jig in conjunction with rotating your welds to opposite edges (as pj suggested should complete the process) with success.

                              Yes it entails additional time and adds quality and expense to your work. Raise the price. I charge more for tedious work everyday. I charge more for replacing backhoe bucket teeth shanks than for bore pipe welding=line it up, tack and weld. Shank replacement entails considerably more time and technique: arc gouging, fill ins, line ups, and rewelds. Get the idea. In my mind $ 400 is a very inexpensive price for these braces. I have fabbed enough to know at $85 per hour my labor gets expensive. Even $70 for heavy equipement repair adds up quickly.

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