millermatic 251 whip question

[corvairbob]

a few weeks ago we talked about my neighbor's millermatic 251 welder that he could not get to weld. and we finally got that resolved and determined the issue was in the whip as he had voltage and current at the wire feed contact points and at the tip of the gun. but the welder does not weld steady, it will weld and if he moves the gun around while welding he loses the weld, but the wire still feeds. i do not think the machine is doing this but the whip is doing this based on my experience working in maintenance and around the weld techs.

is there a way to take the miller whip apart and re work the power part of the cable? i'm leaning on the cable is broken to the point that it can't deliver the amps and loses the weld. i remember the weld techs would sometime rebuild those whips but they were tweco whips and not the miller whips.

if these whips can not be repaired can anyone tell me if those whips i see on ebay will work for this machine? one like this MIG Welding Gun Torch Stinger Replacement Miller M-Series M-10/M-100/M-15/M-25 if this model will work on his welder then he might as well get one of these. he does not do much welding but wants the machine working for the occasional times he welds. he does have a roughneck c-4015 194756 whip that i put on it but he does not have the contact tip or nozzle for it and it almost looks like it is not fitting real good in the wire feed area. it does send gas to the tip but i think it is also leaking gas at the wire feed mount. but if that one will work and it is not actually leaking gas then he can get tips and a nozzle for that. but it is a much heavier whip and he is in a power chair so i would rather he got the lighter whip. anyway if the whip that came with this machine can be rebuilt and there any YT videos that will show me how to rebuild it that someone might link me to? i will bring that whip home and rework the whip and put it back for him.

thanks

[aametalmaster]

M25 is what you want

[Mickey(not so fine)]

For what its worth, I've had pretty good success with the "yeswelder" whips on amazon. I keep one on hand for testing machines sent in without the customers whip and it's handy to quickly determine if the machine is the problem or the whip. I think I gave around $60 for it and it has the flexible head. YMMV, but for testing purposes and weekend warrior welding, the price and quality has made me pretty happy. I don't know how it would hold up for production welding and I'm also kinda particular about taking care of my stuff that will cost me money or time having to replace or fix.

Mickey

[G-ManBart]

I've used a bunch of the generic cheap M-25 style guns and they've been fine. The consumables that come on them aren't as nice as the name brand stuff, but that's an easy fix. The only thing to know is they use HTP style liners, not Miller liners (if you need to replace them).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125099955114?hash=item1d2089d3aa:g:V-EAAOSw02Ri8g~Q&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4Ct9ngtMbMk6F5KuhtJvdq%2F1g6IRh6ytPA6Zr6BgFaHPmAPJqB62tUGJmlX8oRn9yUc4DBy%2FTsNmdPOTjt7eddFbbDmOKR5WPrQ%2FNBZ2sgHlDLB32eNE4GabwaFnPNSDJdQcgdbeuKz%2FmSpyNQ1ivu4vpWZKmv0wEf8koweOic8tLvR%2BVxp2KOKDu5SuFWG0x%2FXMKcPIL8%2BmEuP040k%2FPrcl%2BcmCUktJYn5WzZyTMypxTar%2Fsj7ikrUmBO8EV477H7H4c1dCRhf1g%2BUbO%2B0q9GRYJiwUJAJxWQ0OsyfvBHtp%7Ctkp%3ABFBMjvehvtlg

[aametalmaster]

When I was in sales at the local weld shop I got to see all the sales flyers. Everyone made a Miller knock off gun. You could order them to 100’ long from a few companies. I bought a master weld m15 and really wasn’t happy with it compared to a real Miller. But it was $100 cheaper. After I put lots of Miller parts on it seemed to be ok.

[corvairbob]

thanks. i do not notices from this site so sorry it took so long to get back.i even have subscribed to this thread and it still did not get to me. anyway he is going for that one on ebay you linked me to being it is just for handyman type work. and then he may need to get some contact tips, but i told him to wait until he proves the whip was bad. no sense getting tons of parts just to find out it did nto have a bad ship. but i'm leaning to a bad whip based on it will weld and when he move the gun around it stops welding but the it still feeds and them all of a sudden he moves the gun back and it welds. that sounds like a bad whip to me.

[aametalmaster]

Check the trigger wires

[cruizer]

Guns are simple to repair, if it was a trigger wire short, the display will read "Too Hot", doesn't appear to be the issue. Likely someone pulled the machine around with the gun pulling out the conduit. Not big deal, just need to take the gun head plastic off. You'll need a bic pen, some tye wire and patience.

[ryanjones2150]

Whats the bic pen for?

[corvairbob]

ok it is not the trigger that works in any position i looked at taking the gun apart but the power cable is braded and it doesn't look to be an easy job to fix.
he got one of those whips that was linked above and i put it in for him and he is now a happy camper and welding away on his welding job he needed to do. the whip take the contact tips he has and the old nozzle fit is as will. so thanks for confirming that whip was a good fit for part time welding. he got a quoted from the local parts store for a tweco whip and new nozzle and contact tips that quote was 450$ for this ebay whip it was 65$ and for what he wants to do this one will work. i ran a bead and he ran a bead and he said it is 100% better. again thanks

[cruizer]

Whats the bic pen for?

have the take the hose clamp off the gas hose undo the brass compression nut. I cut back the gun cable past any damage that may be present.
slide a bic pen into the gas hose, work the conduit into the compression nut , remove the pen, and insert the end of the goose neck, then assemble, cut the conduit back further with a exacto knife, tighten the compressor nut and align for the plastic gun handle. Then use a piece the aircraft tye wire to tighten the gas hose to the tube. Sounds like a lot, but takes like 15 min. If you don't loose the screws in the handle. if you don't stick something like a pen into the gas hose, copper strands with get into the hose, and you'll never get it on to the goose neck compression fitting.