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I HATE my welder, MM 252

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  • I HATE my welder, MM 252

    Hello again. I dropped out when I found it impossible to log in a few years ago. I bought a Millermatic 252 in 2010. It has been a great welder, but it always had limitations. The M25 gun it came with never would run .023 wire. The troubleshooter at local Airgas where I bought it said: "I can sell you a gun that'll run .023" I bought a little 100 amp Miller gun that absolutely never worked.

    Years later .030 became a problem, It'd birdnest often with the original gun (M25).
    I ran only .035" with success for years, lately it too birdsnest often.
    I use a big 400 amp Bernard gun to run .045" Dual Shield wire, It worked fine a few years, but recently it too birdsnests. Regardless of gun, or wire size, I can push all I want until I strike an arc, then instant birdnest!

    I've been through the manual trying everything they suggest. I've adjusted the feed rollers as specified. 20 miles away there was a Miller repair facility. He has retired, but he worked on it. Feed rollers were already correct, but he confirmed.

    Friday I posed the question at my local Airgas store, "If I send this machine, when will I see it again. .....Will it be fixed?"
    He answered: "We used to have a facility in Claremont, (90 miles away) turn around might be a couple weeks. Now we have to send them to Maine, at least a month."

    I've tried new liners.

    Somebody suggested carefully inspecting the ruined wire. I find knurled roller tracks & when it is acting up I get friction marks where knurled rollers tried unsuccessfully to push wire. Again today, I pulled the recent liner to inspect for a fault. I found nothing.

    EVERYBODY says do NOT use lubricant. In desperation, I gave the reel a 1 second squirt of WD40. It made a difference!

    Can this problem be fixed? Do I trade the welder? What am I missing?
    Dynasty 280DX
    Bobcat 250
    MM252
    Spool gun
    Twentieth Century 295
    Twentieth Century 295 AC
    Marquette spot welder
    Smith torches

  • #2
    Is the wire guide positioned close enough and not full of debris?

    So if you slap a new liner it in today, it will immediately birdsnest when you strike an arc?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
      Is the wire guide positioned close enough and not full of debris?

      So if you slap a new liner it in today, it will immediately birdsnest when you strike an arc?
      It has gotten progressively worse. At the onset of birdnest with .045 Dual Shield, a new liner MAY have improved the problem slightly, though it is hard to say. My gut feeling is that the liner is fine. This is a problem with all wire sizes & three different guns.
      I don't use Dual Shield often. I'm still on my first 33 LB reel of Dual Shield in this gun. Yes, it worked fine when I bought the reel of wire.

      11 years ago when the welder was new, it wouldn't run .023 wire. The troubleshooter at Airgas sold me a little short 100 amp gun to run .023, it did NOT help. I've never successfully run .023. The original gun Miller M25 worked fine with .030 & .035, but first .030 won't run, now .035 won't.

      As of this morning I'm starting to suspect a bearing on the bottom roller.
      Last edited by WillieB; 10-18-2021, 07:25 AM.
      Dynasty 280DX
      Bobcat 250
      MM252
      Spool gun
      Twentieth Century 295
      Twentieth Century 295 AC
      Marquette spot welder
      Smith torches

      Comment


      • #4
        Any arc strikes on the wire? Does the feed drive roll turn concentrically? Is the upper roll bearing good and aligned properly? I imagine you've already done this, but have one of your boys run beads while you watch the drive assembly. Try that in the dark as well to check for unusual arcing. As MJD said in the other forum check the alignment but further of everything in that area.

        ---Meltedmetal
        ---Meltedmetal

        Comment


        • #5
          How close is the end of the gun to the rollers? I ran .045 dual shield 6 days a week 10 hours a day thru my MM252 at work with zero issues. I hated the welder per say but it did make me $500,000
          Bob Wright

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm guessing that you have set the liner nice and close to the rollers. I had a bird nesting problem a few years back and it turned out to be to big a gap after the rollers.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Meltedmetal View Post
              Any arc strikes on the wire? Does the feed drive roll turn concentrically? Is the upper roll bearing good and aligned properly? I imagine you've already done this, but have one of your boys run beads while you watch the drive assembly. Try that in the dark as well to check for unusual arcing. As MJD said in the other forum check the alignment but further of everything in that area.

              ---Meltedmetal
              I can't find any. I run a silky rag on hard wire, find no snags. The flux cored Dual shield has only tracks put there by the knurled rollers & spin marks where the roller slipped. I feel that has to make friction in the liner.
              Dynasty 280DX
              Bobcat 250
              MM252
              Spool gun
              Twentieth Century 295
              Twentieth Century 295 AC
              Marquette spot welder
              Smith torches

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Oldgrandad View Post
                I'm guessing that you have set the liner nice and close to the rollers. I had a bird nesting problem a few years back and it turned out to be to big a gap after the rollers.
                So close I can't see the gap.
                Dynasty 280DX
                Bobcat 250
                MM252
                Spool gun
                Twentieth Century 295
                Twentieth Century 295 AC
                Marquette spot welder
                Smith torches

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by WillieB View Post

                  So close I can't see the gap.
                  It's not touching is it? That could run the power up the liner instead of up the outside mesh in the gun to the tip. Possibly, Just a thought since it feeds okay without the arc there has to be something going on under power.
                  ---Meltedmetal

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by WillieB View Post
                    ... I feel that has to make friction in the liner.
                    While feeding wire, is there any difference in how coiled or straight the gun lead is?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      what about the spool hub? adjusted properly? are all the parts in there and are they in the proper order?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Meltedmetal View Post

                        It's not touching is it? That could run the power up the liner instead of up the outside mesh in the gun to the tip. Possibly, Just a thought since it feeds okay without the arc there has to be something going on under power.
                        No, I can pass a piece of wire around the gap, I'll say .030 if spark plug gap is a comparison. I see no adjustment of this, only overtightening or under tightening the assembly. I'm not clear how the cap got roller friction, there is space.
                        Dynasty 280DX
                        Bobcat 250
                        MM252
                        Spool gun
                        Twentieth Century 295
                        Twentieth Century 295 AC
                        Marquette spot welder
                        Smith torches

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MAC702 View Post

                          While feeding wire, is there any difference in how coiled or straight the gun lead is?
                          None! If I'm not arcing, I could tie knots in the lead, it'd feed. When arcing it has been nearly a sure thing, it'll birdnest.

                          At worst I'd take the contact tip out & use tip cleaner each small weld. I might be 30 seconds into the weld, I see the wire stuttering, the reel lurching. If I didn't stop, it'd certainly birdnest..
                          Dynasty 280DX
                          Bobcat 250
                          MM252
                          Spool gun
                          Twentieth Century 295
                          Twentieth Century 295 AC
                          Marquette spot welder
                          Smith torches

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It shouldnt ever do it. Mosty people cant wear a liner out. I got a red machine I am not too enthused about, not since day one. Some here said they ran bigger wire and it liked it. But the 252 worked well enough its got a bit of a fan club. I agree this is not typical, it should never stop.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by welderdoc View Post
                              what about the spool hub? adjusted properly? are all the parts in there and are they in the proper order?
                              I've loosened it up to spin freely, nearly no friction, only enough to avoid wire coming off.
                              Dynasty 280DX
                              Bobcat 250
                              MM252
                              Spool gun
                              Twentieth Century 295
                              Twentieth Century 295 AC
                              Marquette spot welder
                              Smith torches

                              Comment

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