Electrical Question

[Sberry]

I think real electricians take some of this for granted after a while but I been at this a while and still find some intricate code and design aspects that never occur to me with simple cord and plug.

[G-ManBart]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09225GPNC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A5AC1RKZTZD48&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GY447RJ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&th=1

So Running these 2 with a 8 Gauge AWS and a 50 AMp breaker and ill be golden, sound good?

Yes, that will work perfectly.

[ryanjones2150]

You should be able to get those at any hardware store right now. Might cost a little more than Amazon, but if you want it now, Lowe’s, Home Depot, ace, menard’s, etc.

[Bushytails]

I always use the 4-wire nema 14-50 with neutral, and 6awg wire, because who knows what you or someone else will want to plug in in the future. Downsizing to 8awg doesn't save much money, but does mean the receptacle has to be strictly dedicated to a single welding machine with a limited duty cycle.

[Sberry]

I know a lot of guys future proof, it doesnt hurt but I never had it happen. Where the extra conductor is good is if a guy wants to put a panel. Can often go around old or existing wire and have a new 120V tool circuit. Gives a local breaker too.
That is quite a starter machine.

[G-ManBart]

A 50A breaker with 8ga wire doesn't need to be a dedicated welder circuit. A 50A breaker with conductors smaller than 8ga would need to be dedicated to a non-continuous load, which may or may no be a welder.

[Bushytails]

As I understand it, per 110.14C, you have to use the temperature rating of the terminations if it is lower than the temperature rating of the wire. This means that you have to use the 60C column even if you have 75C or 90C wire, since the receptacle has a 60C rating. Also, unless you're in chicago, or just like bending pipe for the exercise, you're probably going to use NM-B (romex), which is limited to 60C regardless of the rating of its internal conductors.

[Sberry]

You are probably right, its been so long since I read aby of that and didnt always understand it well anyway. I think you mean,,, he needs number 6 if using cable?

[Sberry]

Most of you guys know more about electricity than I do anyway. My only forum peeve is when someone jumps in with .... you cant,,, when it pertains to a legal circuit followed by the only thing a breaker does is protect the wire in the wall which it really only does on general use circuits with multiple outlets.

[WillieB]

If in fact your welder is adapted to single phase:

The voltage on three phase circuit is likely 480 volt. If changing to 240 volt with three phase, current will double.
Then, when converting to single phase, another factor of 1.73 applies. If it in fact was powered by 240 volt, you only need to apply the 1.73. What was a 30 amp circuit now must be at least 51.9 AMP.

Residential welder power is almost always factoring voltage loss. Ampacity only considers heat of a conductor. You must also calculate voltage loss. Most welders want 230 volts. Your power company provides 240 at the transformer. Calculation of loss in each conductor from transformer to welder will have to be considered. In some cases #6 copper will meet your needs. I'd start with a 60 amp breaker if it is a dedicated circuit for only this welder.

[Sberry]

I absolutely agree. A 6/60 is tailor made for the machine and while method matters a little its a size better than the machine needs and the V drop calcs seem to take the worst scenerio. What I mean by that is the distance is the huge factor. It does become a factor at some point but a lot of difference between a 12 at 75 ft and a 10 at 35 for a buzzer.
That machine is so much better duty, they allow the wire to be used 2 or 3x as long time, the 252 mig class is similar in nature.
The only reason this even interests me is the difference in view. I think it might be simpler to true electricians like Willie and Mac but the one line response to every answer is the breaker protects the wire from thermal which is fundamentaly different than the reality is its sized to allow sufficient current to pass.

[Sberry]

We get caught up on one aspect and miss so many fundamental principles it relies on in true nature. Might be so much more important for laymen to follow instructions and code than people instinctively know.
One of the best hands on mechanics I ever work with can live from a 16 cord without burning the place down.

[Sberry]

What protects the electric range from overheating wire isnt the breaker, its the wire size. All the applied loads in the unit connect to a large enough wire it wont overheat, needs a breaker large enough to let all this pass but sized correctly to provide short circuit interuption to the componant/pieces/elements that need it.

[Sberry]

They really aint sposed to be wired cable, they should be piped, really ideal is single circuit to outlet. Connected by cord to the machine, number 8. Its simply the ground wire is smaller in a cable.
In the real world this machine at 1/2 the listed distance will act like a whiz. I probably should have had one. I am going on the wild side next time and change from 035 to 045 and see if my machine works better.

[Sberry]

The circuit is number 6 to a recept about 2 ft from the panel and mostly plug direct on its home outlet. On occasion I do use 25 ft of 10, all small, 40-45A for 20%. The real load in a home, small garage is the kitchen, most welding circuits spend 99% of their time off in a home garage and even more as users mature.