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blown boards and power line voltage spikes

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  • Sberry
    replied
    I would still like to beat the phone company phfuggers. Jr for hiring the dumbest. I asked, where you learn this and extent of training was to ride with ole Joe for 2 weeks who didnt know much to start with. The old guys follow the rules but the new guy dont know squat. I asked, why you not ground this. His answer,,, well I dont understand why so I dont do it. Logic says if you dont understand then maybe follow the directions instead of doing hundreds of installs half azz. I see the dish company has come up with a photocall that is really fussy and every time they work on one they check and take pic for verification.

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  • Sberry
    replied
    Some of this out of order, was moving between buildings.

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  • Sberry
    replied
    Originally posted by tackit View Post
    Carry I'm glad you said something about branches, i've called the power company out a few years ago for wire snapping in a pine tree's branches, it might be time for them to come back and trim the tress branches again. I thought you can only have two grounds at a certain distance from each other on a breaker panel.
    It's not that you can have only 2 grounds. It's you are required to have 2 grounding electrodes and they were supplementary if other better ones were available, buried water pipe, well casing, now offers with the footer steel and not required anymore under certain circumstances.
    You can add as many as you want, in some areas they use plates or a ring, cant really be too many but they need to be interconnected and are NOT a substitute for a equipment ground wire back to service main neutral which is where "ground" is for our purpose.
    . Earth ground and equipment ground 2 different things
    . Most of this is really over my head. The code and other requirements make is somewhat simple, I dont have to know all the tech to install correctly.
    if it mattered would be in there, there would be instructions in the manual, these machines are not the same as cheap electronic equipment either.
    .

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  • Sberry
    replied
    I had problems, the fix wasnt buried in an electronics manual etc, it was a simple code issue about installation.

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  • Sberry
    replied
    Also,,, equipment that was never hit or even been near a storm goes tits up all the time. Talk about no rules,,,, and its a total stretch to assume its from a strike decades earlier etc. Might be dropped on the floor, might be obsolete, maybe they dont even use those boards or rectifiers anymore but lots of that is fixxed and the dause never really known and almost bet that the repairs to machines plugged in and not be the same if they used the same and reason ones not plugged in last longer is cause they aint used.
    Last faults I had, 1 where I should have replaced worn contactor a decade earlier, stuck under operation, didnt turn on by itself but stuck, totally human error, old, worn, hundreds of thousands of cycles and the other a contactor I ruined due to low voltage rather than hi. Both outright errors, couldnt have added gadgets and 1 I outright forgot to turn off despite having note right in my face to do so.
    Have a mild storm right now, have 7 welders plugged in, hundreds of pieces of equipment. Not going to un plug any. All the connections are modern and have been proved out. I have a minor change or 2 to do, should have done but its not been a deal and my building is super grounded, footer sitting in water at a point.
    Last edited by Sberry; 08-08-2021, 07:11 AM.

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  • Sberry
    replied
    What gets me is the stretch which can distract from real issue and cause. The commercial air cond for example,,, a sophisticated interconnected system with a possibility of a direct hit to the equipment and the difference with the welder sitting in your garage. Lets call Captain obvious to point out the differences between those 2 pictures and even between it and the old house down the street had a hi voltage pole fall on it.
    Maybe pictures would help. But,,, have you had problems with lightening taking out equipment? This is a bit different in real assesment and waking up one morning and deciding you are at real risk not unplugging your welding machine. First,,, way more other equipment way more supseptible than this,,, way low on the pole and if it is there are real problems should be dealt with ahead of it. A lot like not putting gas in the car tank and carrying 5 gallons in the trunk in case you run out,,, I am looking for relevant analogies but the concept is somewhat the same.
    IF you have been hit and especially if it happened more than once would be looking for the cause so to speak. Poor earth at service main is number 1,,,, above all others by expediential multiples as a damage to property from lightening. The case i refer to earlier is one I had a look at after, good chance a rod at the detat6ched structure would have at least hepled prevent it as had they been connected at service. Now she gonna want a "surge supressor" gonna be installed from a ratty old service, suppressor will give a warm feeling but not gonna do any good despite talking to the guy in the isle at the store.
    Should have sold her 2 rods and 20 ft of wire first. If you want something real so to speak check the wire from the neutral main to the rods or any electrodes first thing. Make sure cables from comms, satellite dishes, phones are grounded and art 880 regarding phones worth a real for general knowledge. Antennas too.

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  • Sberry
    replied
    Originally posted by tackit View Post
    Carry I'm glad you said something about branches, i've called the power company out a few years ago for wire snapping in a pine tree's branches, it might be time for them to come back and trim the tress branches again. I thought you can only have two grounds at a certain distance from each other on a breaker panel.
    It's not that you can have only 2 grounds. It's you are required to have 2 grounding electrodes and they were supplementary if other better ones were available, buried water pipe, well casing, now offers with the footer steel and not required anymore under certain circumstances.
    You can add as many as you want, in some areas they use plates or a ring, cant really be too many but they need to be interconnected and are NOT a substitute for a equipment ground wire back to service main neutral which is where "ground" is for our purpose.
    . Earth ground and equipment ground 2 different things
    . Most of this is really over my head. The code and other requirements make is somewhat simple, I dont have to know all the tech to install correctly.
    if it mattered would be in there, there would be instructions in the manual, these machines are not the same as cheap electronic equipment either.
    .

    Leave a comment:


  • Sberry
    replied
    I do like some of the creativity here, got to admire the connections that can be made. Some old house from the 30s gets a hi tension line dropped on it substation insulators are 5 ft from each other means you need to unplug the welding machines.
    what would have been the result with the house had they unplugged everything in it?

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  • tackit
    replied
    Carry I'm glad you said something about branches, i've called the power company out a few years ago for wire snapping in a pine tree's branches, it might be time for them to come back and trim the tress branches again. I thought you can only have two grounds at a certain distance from each other on a breaker panel.

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  • Sberry
    replied
    Last night a thunderstorm caused our power to go out three times. luckily each time it came back on. None of my machines are hard wired to a circuit, so for me it's just a matter of pulling a machines plug and eliminating all chances of lightening damage.
    Plugged or unplugged the power is off to your machines, spose it could be a different scenario if they were on. But,,, doubt it was the thunder storm or the lightening that caused it, it happened while those events were taking place but is usualluy a limb on the primarry and they use self resetting breakers, ones on my line are 3 times but its so every branch doesnt need a service call.
    Reason this is all rather moot is the circuit the welder is on is unlikely to become a pathway for a lightening strike. The incident I relate to earlier about the shed and the well was,,, no ground at the shed so it took a grounded circuit as its pathway to the main, no ground there either so it took it to the submersible well down a steel pipe. Would have been a different case had the electric service been grounded to the steel well casing but the best ground in the whole joint being the motor and poof on old stuff.
    I had incident with one and they took it as a strike and dont recall how the old was wired but I ask the well guy and he doesnt know squat and I finally get with Keis on old tool box forum and he says ground to casing,, I say what about rods for this service and he bang me on the skull and said,,, to the casing dummy.
    It was a big ah ha moment for the concept of dealuing with lighting strikes. One thing, it when satalite, cable, phones not grounded they hunt in grounded equipment, use the building wire to go to earth. Surge or strike really didnt hit the electric, it hit the antenna.

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  • tackit
    replied
    Ryan are you speaking about power company three phase not needing to be balanced? I am talking about unbalanced, home made, three phase rotary converter 3 phase power, being sent to customers down line.

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    If you ever put a meter on 3ph power, you’ll see inconsistency in the voltage, particularity on one line. 3ph doesn’t have a neutral because it doesn’t need it, it’s balanced simply by its existence in 3 phases. 1ph needs a neutral to return to the source to keep the load balanced. This is partly why 3ph is so much more efficient than 1ph.

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  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Originally posted by tackit View Post
    I read home built three phase converters which aren't balanced properly can send dirty power down line, is it true and can anything be done to check for it and correct the problem? Would unbalanced three phase power effect single phase power too?
    I think I can understand what they're talking about but I am not knowledgeable enough in that area to offer any opinion that I could say has much basis in fact. I do know that the power company doesn't like it when you mess up the balance across the three phases significantly, but again, not an area of my knowledge.

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  • Sberry
    replied
    I cant tell the tech data but the idea I get that supression is to shunt it to the earth as close to the event as possible. Absolutely some events so catastrophic as unavoidable, hurricane makes sense to unplug etc but most not practical, one reason they put a good switch in the first place.
    Something Keis said made a lot of sense,,, said we add ground rods to the poles of the parking lot lights at the casino. Its not in place of the egc but to divert strike there vs it being carried back to the source.

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  • Sberry
    replied
    zillions of peices of equipment run every day thru all lkinds of weather and you are gonna be that guy has his welder ruined by lightening, and even worse may never know. Secondly welders are rather robust in this regards. I have had damaged equipment. It might have hit the circuit board who knows but the real fault was the ground. We are not grounding other equippment to welding machines ,,, we are grounding them to the service and relative to other equipment.
    My explanation certainly is suspect, my real knowledge and expertise limited at best but I have asked the real expert or 2to splain to me how this all basically works and why and in the process he happened to mention that electronic guys can seem to find a way to put a spin on it as their electric is special from others but it takes a bit to get ones mind around this and not sure I really can explain it.
    I understand most of you know more about electric than I ever will,,,, absolutely no debate but this is rooted in code and lightening prevention and well studied.
    Last edited by Sberry; 08-07-2021, 12:42 PM.

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