Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Open engines vs enclosed engines?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • tackit
    replied
    Originally posted by Sberry;n 616005
    I am not sure how trying to gob on to a cheap engine would be more reliable than an upgrade to water cooled, a vast improvement from air in most cases.
    Yes that's true, but the world needs inventors and trailblazers also, and its interesting to see what inventors come up with.to solve mechanical problems. .

    Leave a comment:


  • Sberry
    replied
    I am not sure how trying to gob on to a cheap engine would be more reliable than an upgrade to water cooled, a vast improvement from air in most cases.

    Leave a comment:


  • tackit
    replied
    Originally posted by Meltedmetal View Post
    Innovation in welding machines moves forward(mostly) in tandem with advances in other categories like metallurgy, electronics and design. There is always going to be the desire to make mediocre welders better by improving the equipment. It doesn't always work unfortunately. Some new alloys have been able to expand their range of use because newer machines and techniques are now available. Sometimes that is not an improvement either depending on what and where you have to deal with it.

    ---Meltedmetal
    great assessment of what going on in the welding industry. today, time and competition in the market place marches on...

    Leave a comment:


  • Meltedmetal
    replied
    Innovation in welding machines moves forward(mostly) in tandem with advances in other categories like metallurgy, electronics and design. There is always going to be the desire to make mediocre welders better by improving the equipment. It doesn't always work unfortunately. Some new alloys have been able to expand their range of use because newer machines and techniques are now available. Sometimes that is not an improvement either depending on what and where you have to deal with it.

    ---Meltedmetal

    Leave a comment:


  • MAC702
    replied
    Originally posted by Sberry View Post
    They have invented this,,, called the water cooled engine.
    And then there's a water pump that can be the part to fail...

    Leave a comment:


  • Sberry
    replied
    I am with Aero a bit on this. I am all for innovation but they got enough crap on them now. Seems if we were after indestructible we could simply beef up the electronics. Detune it all so its not working so hard.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sberry
    replied
    They have invented this,,, called the water cooled engine.

    Leave a comment:


  • tackit
    replied
    Originally posted by Sberry View Post
    We gonna fix them better? These are well designed machines with a long history. Are we really going to wear them out? Maybe we gonna race them?
    I don't know, Innovation is what made... made in American mean something, just like Miller is always updating their products when machines built back in the 90's got the job done,

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Originally posted by walker View Post
    Also, it is very difficult to run an oil cooler when you have no oil pump because the motor is splash lubricated.
    Most engine drive welders except the very smallest have positive pressure oil systems, generally with full flow filters.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sberry
    replied
    We gonna fix them better? These are well designed machines with a long history. Are we really going to wear them out? Maybe we gonna race them?
    Last edited by Sberry; 07-13-2021, 06:05 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • tackit
    replied
    Interesting article on oil cooling pumps, perhaps a model for fling oil cooled engines could be manufactured to send oil through a oil cooler for engine drives welding machines, and not have an impossible great footprint.. https://rbracing-rsr.com/oilsystems.htm

    Last edited by tackit; 07-13-2021, 12:50 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • walker
    replied
    Also, it is very difficult to run an oil cooler when you have no oil pump because the motor is splash lubricated.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chas007
    replied
    Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
    I can only speak for my equipment experience in this realm, and that is with a Hobart engine drive and an onan genset. Both say they need the panels in place during operation to force the cooling air to circulate in a specific manner. Makes sense. You need a shroud on the fan for your car to do a similar thing.
    I never thought of the air shroud thing. Makes sense, now I wish mine was enclosed

    Leave a comment:


  • tackit
    replied
    Originally posted by Aeronca41 View Post
    Heat truly is the enemy of electronics. When you are running the math calculations for reliability predictions, the temp is a big factor.

    So, here's another vote for the enclosure being essential to proper cooling. This is also true in a lot of electronic equipment. Some stuff I've worked on will be fried in short order if you run it out of the case without providing additional cooling. Seems counter-intuitive--seems having it open all around should cool it better, but it's just not so.

    Oil coolers may or may not help the high-priced electronics in the electrical end of the machine--will keep the engine cooler, but not a lot of help to the electrical end, most likely. However, they add complexity to the design. Coolers may be great in the hot summer, but if you're running in the winter in the cold north, an oil cooler may be the last thing you want, depending on the design. Oil that's too thick (cold) obviously doesn't flow well. So, now you have to add some sort of thermostat to the oil cooler system, and a flow control valve...doesn't help overall reliability when you start adding parts. If you can get away without additional doodads, it's always a good plan to avoid them. Especially if there's a chance the flow control could stick "closed" and cause overheat and potential damage to the engine--the mechanical and electrical design would have to be fail-safe--open the flow valve all the way if something goes wrong. Of particular concern on a welder, where it's sitting on the truck or trailer unattended while the guy is off under a piece of equipment or in a ditch--a failure warning light is of no use like it would be on a piece of heavy equipment or a truck where an operator is sitting there.
    Good and sensible points.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Heat truly is the enemy of electronics. When you are running the math calculations for reliability predictions, the temp is a big factor.

    So, here's another vote for the enclosure being essential to proper cooling. This is also true in a lot of electronic equipment. Some stuff I've worked on will be fried in short order if you run it out of the case without providing additional cooling. Seems counter-intuitive--seems having it open all around should cool it better, but it's just not so.

    Oil coolers may or may not help the high-priced electronics in the electrical end of the machine--will keep the engine cooler, but not a lot of help to the electrical end, most likely. However, they add complexity to the design. Coolers may be great in the hot summer, but if you're running in the winter in the cold north, an oil cooler may be the last thing you want, depending on the design. Oil that's too thick (cold) obviously doesn't flow well. So, now you have to add some sort of thermostat to the oil cooler system, and a flow control valve...doesn't help overall reliability when you start adding parts. If you can get away without additional doodads, it's always a good plan to avoid them. Especially if there's a chance the flow control could stick "closed" and cause overheat and potential damage to the engine--the mechanical and electrical design would have to be fail-safe--open the flow valve all the way if something goes wrong. Of particular concern on a welder, where it's sitting on the truck or trailer unattended while the guy is off under a piece of equipment or in a ditch--a failure warning light is of no use like it would be on a piece of heavy equipment or a truck where an operator is sitting there.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X