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PipePro 304 issue

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    I need to come spend about a month in your shop learning how the magic pixies work through the fancy electronical components.

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  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Originally posted by LoganpClayton View Post

    I am with Aeronca41 at this point, call me old school but I would rather have a bridge rectifier and a potentiometer that feeds my excitation circuit instead of dicing that process up into two separate proprietary PC boards...*glares at miller engineering team quickly*... at any rate now it comes down to trying to learn what/how it is those boards feed the rotor the proper voltage, at the proper time.

    At this point I would be looking at the theory of operation, bracing for the cost of a voltage regulator board, and finally breaking down to call tech support and see what else they can think of to test if that board is operating normally or if they have anything else they would be checking out. Millers # is 920-735-4505 hit ext 3 then ask for engine drive group or just say you need tech help for a pipepro304 and they will get you over to the right service
    group.


    Voltage regulator pc8#: 213231 List: 1,324.36. Ouch my soul.. Best of luck!
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    Right on! There are such simple ways to do this, that have worked for years. This is clearly in the category of electronic design that I call "just because you can do it that way, doesn't mean you should!" However, seriously, I'm sure there are benefits to the design approach they took.

    I briefly had the wild and crazy idea that if this were mine, I would disconnect the leads to the brushes and hook up a variable DC power supply that has a current limiting function in their place and see if I could get it to weld. Obviously would not be responsive to changes in engine speed, generator load (based on variations in arc length), etc., but it would prove the generator works. Just don't exceed the specified DC voltage. But, not knowing the potential impact on the circuit boards if the rotor is disconnected from them, I'm not sure I'd actually try it. Falls into the "It would probably be ok, but....." category.

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  • LoganpClayton
    replied
    Originally posted by greenwoodbison View Post
    What does this low voltage at the slip rings indicate? - Anyone?
    I am with Aeronca41 at this point, call me old school but I would rather have a bridge rectifier and a potentiometer that feeds my excitation circuit instead of dicing that process up into two separate proprietary PC boards...*glares at miller engineering team quickly*... at any rate now it comes down to trying to learn what/how it is those boards feed the rotor the proper voltage, at the proper time.

    At this point I would be looking at the theory of operation, bracing for the cost of a voltage regulator board, and finally breaking down to call tech support and see what else they can think of to test if that board is operating normally or if they have anything else they would be checking out. Millers # is 920-735-4505 hit ext 3 then ask for engine drive group or just say you need tech help for a pipepro304 and they will get you over to the right service
    group.


    Voltage regulator pc8#: 213231 List: 1,324.36. Ouch my soul.. Best of luck!
    Click image for larger version

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Views:	93
Size:	105.8 KB
ID:	612712

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Not an expert on this machine, but it says to me that either the voltage regulator board or the power board is not producing the right output(s). WIthout schematics, it's hard to tell which. Hope someone with experience on that machine can help you out. Whether that is due to a problem on the board, or some input to it, I can't tell.

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  • greenwoodbison
    replied
    What does this low voltage at the slip rings indicate? - Anyone?

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  • greenwoodbison
    replied
    LoganpClayton - sorry for the delay with the holidays, but here is what I found: R1,R2 & R3 - all 0.5 ohms, R4 - 18.2 ohms at the terminals on the brush holder and 17.2 ohms at the slip rings themselves. For voltages I found V1-V3 at Idle to be ~127Vac and on Run to be ~190Vac, then V4 @ Idle to be 14.4Vdc and on Run 14.3Vdc.

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  • greenwoodbison
    replied
    LoganpClayton - thanks so much for this. It looks very helpful - I’ll check these voltages and resistances and let you know what I find. - Thanks

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  • greenwoodbison
    replied
    LoganpClayton - I did adjust the V/A knob with the display showing accordingly the change, but it didn’t affect the AC outlets.

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  • LoganpClayton
    replied
    Assuming that the command pot/encoder has nothing to do with it, and we verified engine speeds and checked for connection issues next on the list would be the excitation circuit, which includes the brushes, rotor (slip rings), stator windings themselves. I am going to upload a few photos to help taking those voltage and resistance tests for that circuit.

    V1-V4 (voltage checks on windings and rotor)
    R1-R4 (resistance checks on actual windings/rotor)

    V4 is the voltage that feeds the rotor, if this is low no matter what engine RPM you have there will always be a low electrical output, the voltage builds up the magnetization on the rotor itself, bigger electromagnet, better Stator saturation= higher voltage output. A failing brush, or bad slip ring connection can cause limited output as well, for good measure check the aux windings too!



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    Click image for larger version

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  • LoganpClayton
    replied
    Originally posted by LoganpClayton View Post
    Hello!

    So one thing I would be checking is if this unit requires the amperage command knob to be at 10 for full AC output. Some welder generators need the amperage command to 10 for the 110VAC duplex to get full output.
    Did you verify that the V/A adjustment is maxed out, just for good measure? some units require V/A adjust to be max for duplex for AC to get full output.

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  • greenwoodbison
    replied
    Aeronca41 - well I really appreciate yours and everyone else’s help so far. Have definitely been able to start to tick a few possibilities off of the list.

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  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Just went to look at the schematic--essentially nothing there--just blocks that represent circuit cards. Unless you are a pretty skilled decipherer of circuit boards without a diagram, you are going to need someone with at least a tech manual for this machine (which usually doesn't have schematics either), but it will at least give you some voltages and resistances to check. Unfortunately, the TM generally just says "change the board" if you get bad readings, which can get really expensive. Very frustrating. Perhaps someone else has direct experience with this machine and can give you some guidance. I'm stymied by lack of data at this point. Sorry.

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  • greenwoodbison
    replied
    Ok, I got 2440 rpm on Idle and 3754 on Run. I know the idle is a bit low and needs to be raised, but I didn’t see any bad or loose connections when tracing the wires from the brushes. - Where can I check next as far as components to zero in on the culprit?

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  • Aeronca41
    replied
    The IR Tachometer Logan recommends is a good idea. Need to be sure the engine is running at the right speed--all else depends on that. Then, you'll have to start looking for the bad connections or failed parts.

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  • greenwoodbison
    replied
    Aeronca41 - brushes are good. I have two sets, I removed one and cleaned the slips rings with very fine grit polishing sand paper. Plenty of brush length

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