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PipePro 304 issue

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  • #16
    Assuming that the command pot/encoder has nothing to do with it, and we verified engine speeds and checked for connection issues next on the list would be the excitation circuit, which includes the brushes, rotor (slip rings), stator windings themselves. I am going to upload a few photos to help taking those voltage and resistance tests for that circuit.

    V1-V4 (voltage checks on windings and rotor)
    R1-R4 (resistance checks on actual windings/rotor)

    V4 is the voltage that feeds the rotor, if this is low no matter what engine RPM you have there will always be a low electrical output, the voltage builds up the magnetization on the rotor itself, bigger electromagnet, better Stator saturation= higher voltage output. A failing brush, or bad slip ring connection can cause limited output as well, for good measure check the aux windings too!



    Click image for larger version

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    Click image for larger version

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    • #17
      LoganpClayton - I did adjust the V/A knob with the display showing accordingly the change, but it didn’t affect the AC outlets.

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      • #18
        LoganpClayton - thanks so much for this. It looks very helpful - I’ll check these voltages and resistances and let you know what I find. - Thanks

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        • #19
          LoganpClayton - sorry for the delay with the holidays, but here is what I found: R1,R2 & R3 - all 0.5 ohms, R4 - 18.2 ohms at the terminals on the brush holder and 17.2 ohms at the slip rings themselves. For voltages I found V1-V3 at Idle to be ~127Vac and on Run to be ~190Vac, then V4 @ Idle to be 14.4Vdc and on Run 14.3Vdc.

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          • #20
            What does this low voltage at the slip rings indicate? - Anyone?

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            • #21
              Not an expert on this machine, but it says to me that either the voltage regulator board or the power board is not producing the right output(s). WIthout schematics, it's hard to tell which. Hope someone with experience on that machine can help you out. Whether that is due to a problem on the board, or some input to it, I can't tell.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by greenwoodbison View Post
                What does this low voltage at the slip rings indicate? - Anyone?
                I am with Aeronca41 at this point, call me old school but I would rather have a bridge rectifier and a potentiometer that feeds my excitation circuit instead of dicing that process up into two separate proprietary PC boards...*glares at miller engineering team quickly*... at any rate now it comes down to trying to learn what/how it is those boards feed the rotor the proper voltage, at the proper time.

                At this point I would be looking at the theory of operation, bracing for the cost of a voltage regulator board, and finally breaking down to call tech support and see what else they can think of to test if that board is operating normally or if they have anything else they would be checking out. Millers # is 920-735-4505 hit ext 3 then ask for engine drive group or just say you need tech help for a pipepro304 and they will get you over to the right service
                group.


                Voltage regulator pc8#: 213231 List: 1,324.36. Ouch my soul.. Best of luck!
                Click image for larger version

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by LoganpClayton View Post

                  I am with Aeronca41 at this point, call me old school but I would rather have a bridge rectifier and a potentiometer that feeds my excitation circuit instead of dicing that process up into two separate proprietary PC boards...*glares at miller engineering team quickly*... at any rate now it comes down to trying to learn what/how it is those boards feed the rotor the proper voltage, at the proper time.

                  At this point I would be looking at the theory of operation, bracing for the cost of a voltage regulator board, and finally breaking down to call tech support and see what else they can think of to test if that board is operating normally or if they have anything else they would be checking out. Millers # is 920-735-4505 hit ext 3 then ask for engine drive group or just say you need tech help for a pipepro304 and they will get you over to the right service
                  group.


                  Voltage regulator pc8#: 213231 List: 1,324.36. Ouch my soul.. Best of luck!
                  Click image for larger version

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ID:	612712
                  Right on! There are such simple ways to do this, that have worked for years. This is clearly in the category of electronic design that I call "just because you can do it that way, doesn't mean you should!" However, seriously, I'm sure there are benefits to the design approach they took.

                  I briefly had the wild and crazy idea that if this were mine, I would disconnect the leads to the brushes and hook up a variable DC power supply that has a current limiting function in their place and see if I could get it to weld. Obviously would not be responsive to changes in engine speed, generator load (based on variations in arc length), etc., but it would prove the generator works. Just don't exceed the specified DC voltage. But, not knowing the potential impact on the circuit boards if the rotor is disconnected from them, I'm not sure I'd actually try it. Falls into the "It would probably be ok, but....." category.

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                  • #24
                    I need to come spend about a month in your shop learning how the magic pixies work through the fancy electronical components.

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