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  • Syncrowave 250 starting issue

    I seem to be having a new to me Syncrowave 250 (1997 ish) welder that was given to me. When i try to weld i get a very low acratic ark. like the start of the weld and it never kicks up to the higher amperage (sorry for the terminology, not totally sure what each part is)
    i started going though the forms searching and saw i should check the HF point gap and did. But i am not totally sure what it should look like when its working. I shot a video of it to see. Does this look right? I also noticed the points were not shinny, but more dull gray and a "burnt" looking. Should i try to clean them up?



    Thanks


  • #2
    I'm not familiar enough with syncros to solve your actual problem, but I can tell you that the spark gaps are not the problem. They're only used to generate the high-frequency/high-voltage starting arc that allows you to start without touching your tungsten to the workpiece. If your arc is starting, they're working correctly.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Bushytails View Post
      I'm not familiar enough with syncros to solve your actual problem, but I can tell you that the spark gaps are not the problem. They're only used to generate the high-frequency/high-voltage starting arc that allows you to start without touching your tungsten to the workpiece. If your arc is starting, they're working correctly.
      what would you call that then? trying to find the correct terms to search for lol

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      • #4
        The HF is clearly firing in your video. It won't hurt to clean them a bit...even just a swipe over a fine wire wheel is enough, and then set them around .010" gap. The electrode part of the points is made of tungsten and does wear over time, so they do need to be replaced periodically but if any of the tungsten section is there, they should work. Still, with what shows in the video that doesn't seem likely to be the problem. Erratic arc start can come from a contaminated tungsten, improperly ground tungsten, not enough amperage for the tungsten size, and probably a bunch of other stuff I'm not aware of or have forgotten about.

        Can you take a bit of a step back and fill in some information for us? First off, what is the serial number? What are you trying to weld...steel or aluminum? What settings are you using? What sort of torch setup do you have? Are you using a foot pedal or something else?

        Assuming you're welding steel with a foot pedal, you'd want the large handle set for DCEN, the Amperage switch to Remote, the Output switch to Remote, the HF switch set to Start, and the remote switch set to remote, and the Arc Control switch to Off. Pre-flow around .5S if yours has the dial to adjust it, and post flow something like 5 seconds for starters (longer at higher amperage).

        If you're welding aluminum you'd want the process selector set for AC, the Amperage switch to Remote, the Output switch to Remote, the HF switch set to Continuous, the Arc Control switch to Off and the AC Balance around 3.5 or so. You can use the same pre and post flow for this as well right now.

        If all of that is correct and you're not getting amperage to increase/decrease with the pedal it can be one of a couple of things that the true experts will have to weigh in on, but that's really where the serial number comes in because there were some changes throughout the production run that make a difference (although yours sounds new enough that it might not be a factor).
        Last edited by G-ManBart; 11-07-2020, 11:31 PM.

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        • #5
          Thanks for that.
          This welder was working, then sat for a year and how its how it sat. It has a water cooler and a pulse box. However i took off the pulse box to remove one point of failure for testing.
          I am currently trying to weld basic mild steel. ( I normally use a everlast tig, but it has much less "features" then this one")
          I am using a HW-20 tig torch
          Serial number KG185896
          Stock number 903056

          My settings are around what you said. Will include a image also.
          Click image for larger version

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          and what the torch looks like. From this it tells me the HF is working right? just not triggering the rest.
          Attached Files

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          • #6
            Yes, the HF is working, but you have it set to continuous, so they keep firing...but that shouldn't stop it from welding. Double-check that you're getting gas flow through the torch as well. I'm not an expert, but I recall reading that the gas gets ionized and helps transfer the arc. I'd also check the wiring on the pedal from end to end...look for a cut or tear and maybe even open up the pedal and look around since something could be stuck or rusty. I'm sure the experts will have more ideas.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by G-ManBart View Post
              Yes, the HF is working, but you have it set to continuous, so they keep firing...but that shouldn't stop it from welding. Double-check that you're getting gas flow through the torch as well. I'm not an expert, but I recall reading that the gas gets ionized and helps transfer the arc. I'd also check the wiring on the pedal from end to end...look for a cut or tear and maybe even open up the pedal and look around since something could be stuck or rusty. I'm sure the experts will have more ideas.
              awesome, thanks, let me change that to HF on start, and will open the pedal. I checked continuity on the main rotating switch, and it seems fine there. Have checked 2 of the 4 main relays so far too and all seem good. (checking the others next)

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              • #8
                I wouldn't use a wire wheel to dress HF points...when I spoke to a Miller tech several years back about HF in my Sync 250, he said nothing coarser than about 300 or 600 grit paper if I recall right...and in many cases, even 1000 grit (or even plain paper) would clean them up sufficiently.

                Maybe they're plated with something...? Whatever the reason, I think you want to avoid even microscopic gouges.
                Last edited by Helios; 11-08-2020, 12:00 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Helios View Post
                  I wouldn't use a wire wheel to dress HF points...when I spoke to a Miller tech several years back about HF in my Sync 250, he said nothing coarser than about 300 or 600 grit paper if I recall right...and in many cases, even 1000 grit (or even plain paper) would clean them up sufficiently.

                  Maybe they're plated with something...? Whatever the reason, I think you want to avoid even microscopic gouges.
                  I won't argue with a Miller tech, but I have cleaned the HF points with a fine wire wheel on many machines and they've always worked perfectly afterwards. The actual electrode part is made of tungsten and very hard. They get a bit of a dimpled texture after being used and I have yet to see a wire wheel leave any marks at all...the texture is identical before and after.

                  I suspect actual dressing, where you remove material is different and that's why he mentioned fine sand paper...that would actually leave marks. In every Miller manual I can recall they say not to dress the points with anything. If there is no tungsten material left you simply replace them. Then again, they're selling parts, so who knows?

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                  • #10
                    Looks like that tungsten is only firing HF and no arc at all. Check the work clamp and see if you’re getting a connection. Maybe even try lighting up on the work clamp itself. At the very least it will take that variable out of it.

                    If you have no connection, you’re not completing the loop, hammering down on the foot pedal will only result in more of the same, it’ll be like a dead throttle.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
                      Looks like that tungsten is only firing HF and no arc at all. Check the work clamp and see if you’re getting a connection. Maybe even try lighting up on the work clamp itself. At the very least it will take that variable out of it.

                      If you have no connection, you’re not completing the loop, hammering down on the foot pedal will only result in more of the same, it’ll be like a dead throttle.
                      Thanks,
                      I just tried it on the clamp itself with the same result.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by paranoid56 View Post

                        Thanks,
                        I just tried it on the clamp itself with the same result.
                        It wouldn't hurt to try setting the amperage control switch to panel and see what happens. The amperage will be fixed at whatever the amperage dial is set on, but that's fine for a test. That way the pedal controls arc start, but not amperage. We know the pedal is sending the signal to fire the HF, but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the amperage side of the pedal.

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                        • #13
                          IT is in my observation that the power cable in the tig torch is bad try to stick weld with it or if you have a volt meter check to see if you have open circuit voltage .Make sure you have the HF in the off position or you will wreck your meter.

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                          • #14
                            Check the work clamp connection at the machine too.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by G-ManBart View Post

                              It wouldn't hurt to try setting the amperage control switch to panel and see what happens. The amperage will be fixed at whatever the amperage dial is set on, but that's fine for a test. That way the pedal controls arc start, but not amperage. We know the pedal is sending the signal to fire the HF, but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the amperage side of the pedal.
                              Just tried that with the same result,

                              Originally posted by Weld dr View Post
                              IT is in my observation that the power cable in the tig torch is bad try to stick weld with it or if you have a volt meter check to see if you have open circuit voltage .Make sure you have the HF in the off position or you will wreck your meter.
                              question on this, how and what am i measuring? I tried to (with the machine off) check continuity between the positive post on the machine and the tungsten and i showed it open, which feels wrong, but wanted to ask you pros first.
                              Also, i didn't come with any stick welding stuff, so cant really try that.

                              Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
                              Check the work clamp connection at the machine too.
                              Checked the continuity between the ground bolt on the machine and the clamp and it looks good, zero ohm resistance.

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