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Millermatic 200 CR1 chattering

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  • Aeronca41
    replied
    He found the trouble before buying the relay--the circuit breaker was not conducting current properly and dropping the voltage to the relay. He was only getting 13 volts downstream from the breaker. Temporarily bypassed the CB with a piece of wire on the 24v feed to the CR1 and the chattering stopped.

    But, you make a very good point--when someone has done rewiring in a machine, suspect that first!

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  • 1997CST
    replied
    When i see a machine that the owner just purchased and has never seen it operate I question who's hands were in it before I got it.
    The most common chattering relay is someone wired the ice cube wrong and it's lacking full voltage. That would be my first step before I
    start throwing parts at it. Track down every wire to that relay and be 100% sure it's wired right.

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  • jjohn76
    replied
    Yeah great find! That seller also has a pair of XMT 304 IGBT modules for something like $60 and the gate drive PCBs for around$20./

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  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Wow--that's a great find. Easy fix; no searching and adapting something that "almost" fits.

    Glad you got it going--and without breaking the bank. Great outcome, glad to be able to help.

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  • JakeLB
    replied
    Definitely agree....i just want to quick run it for a second and make sure it does run without chattering once its all connected.

    I found a genuine exact miller part for $45 bucks on ebay... ill scoop that up!!!

    i think we got it fixed tho...thanks so much for the help!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeronca41
    replied
    yes--separate jumpers is correct. May be hard to find a 2-pole breaker, but I would think some searching would turn one up. Should be able to go with a cross ref from the orig part number on the existing breaker. I would NOT run the wire feed motor much without protection--I'm guessing if that get toasted your welder is junk--not obtainable any more.

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  • JakeLB
    replied
    Sorry 2 pole not 4 pole....has 4 connector terminals

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  • JakeLB
    replied
    Yes it is a 4 pole breaker see attached picture.

    so what i was wondering before is i jumpered 32 and 30 wires to get cr1 working, but can i jumper 3 and 21 as well to get wire feeding? Would i jump 3 and 21 as a seperate circuit or jumper all 30, 32, 3 and 21 together as one? Im guessing my first thought of doing them seperate is correct but dont wanna overload something!!

    Attached Files

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  • Aeronca41
    replied
    This is getting more interesting--I only saw the portion of the breaker in the schematic I posted. That must be a two-pole breaker--are there four terminals on it? Might be a little harder to find.

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  • JakeLB
    replied
    This is the wires #21 and #3 which im talking about. I think anyway cant actually read a schematic if my life depended on it lol!!

    dude your the best shoulda come on this forum months ago!!! Ok I will find me a new CB1 and hook it up.

    Thanks for your help all!!
    Attached Files

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  • Aeronca41
    replied
    Great! You found it.

    I agree with Bart--some sparks at the contacts when the relay opens and closes are not out of the ordinary.

    You need to find a replacement CB--I would not keep on welding with no overload protection in that circuit--if one of the bridge diodes shorts or something else goes south, you don't want to toast your machine. The parts list in the manual says it's a 0.7 amp manual reset circuit breaker, which you might be able to get by taking the old one to your local electrical supply place. There is probably a manufacturer name and part number on the old one, and you should be able find it or a substitute. You may have to tweak with how it's mounted, but any .7 amp breaker will work. I'm sure you can find something at Mouser, Digikey, Allied, etc. on line.

    I am a bit confused by the wire numbers you mention. Looking at the diagram, I don't see those numbers hooked to the breaker. But, just install the new breaker with the wires connected as the old one and you should be good to go.

    Click image for larger version

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  • walker
    replied
    Since it is a new to you machine, have you checked the jumper position?

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  • G-ManBart
    replied
    Originally posted by JakeLB View Post

    one thing to note i do get a small spark on Cr1 relay when it first hits and when i release not sure of thats normal or not.

    Thank you!!!
    Going off memory, that's normal...

    Leave a comment:


  • JakeLB
    replied
    Alright so i checked volts at wire #30 on bridge and #32 on CR1 i only get about 13 volts. So i jumpered wires #30 and #31 on CB1 breaker and i get 24 volts and no chatter on CR1!!!!!

    now when you say bypass CB1 completely do you mean hook all the wires into one clump or connect #31 and #32 as one and then #21 and #3 as another?

    one thing to note i do get a small spark on Cr1 relay when it first hits and when i release not sure of thats normal or not.

    Thank you!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Aeronca41
    replied
    MM200 is without a doubt the nicest MIG machine I've ever used. It obviously doesn't have all the modern bells and whistles, but for just burning wire, it is fantastic.

    CR1 would definitely make everything else flop around if it's chattering, so you are on the right track. Do be careful in there--one hand in your pocket all the time when working on hot circuits--use clip leads. Never two hands inside the machine at a time. Here's the manual if you don't have one.

    https://www.millerwelds.com/files/owners-manuals/O1303J_MIL.pdf

    If you look at the schematic diagram on page 28 at the top left, you will see CR1 in the circle. Notice the jumper connections at the very top of the diagram. There is a jumper wire between pins 5 and 6 of PLG 1; could be dirty or corroded. I'm pretty sure the pins to right of that (RC1, pins 1 and 2) are the pins on the front panel connector where the small wire from the trigger switch in the MIG gun plugs in. Assuming you have found the transformer is putting out 24 volts, and jumpering the circuit breaker didn't help, here's another thing to try. Once again, get the relay chattering and try bypassing all of those jumpers and connections by connecting a jumper wire from wire #30 on the diode bridge to wire # 16 going to the relay coil. Be sure to find a way to connect to those wires safely. That will take all the connections, including the gun trigger, out of the circuit. If any of those connections or the trigger are bad, you should see it stop chattering immediately.

    Leave a comment:

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