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Syncrowave 250 gas running all the time.

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  • Syncrowave 250 gas running all the time.

    I have an older Syncrowave 250 - serial # JJ 512404. When in tig mode the argon runs the minute the machine is turned on until it's shut off. All other functions work properly. I am not real good at electronics, but I was following some of the manual trouble shooting plus some observation. and believe I have a bad timer. The trouble shooting guide says to check the timer for continuity. I am not sure of the the procedure to do this. I did remove the wire - actually 2 wires on one connection - that comes from the gas valve to the timer. I turned the machine on and as expected no gas was feeding. When it's hooked back up gas feeds as soon as the machine is switched on. I can see the relays and all are working when I step on the remote contractor.The contacts look good and clean..HF start is working. Am I right in concluding the timer is bad? I am retired and this is used in a hobby situation, so I'm not in a situation where I feel i can just throw parts at it. I even thought of disconnecting the gas valve wires from the timer and putting a switch at the torch to engage the valve until I can get a new timer if that's my problem. Any procedures for checking the timer?

  • #2
    You can get a #17V torch head and swap out what you have until you get the timer, or whatever the problem is, fixed.

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    • #3
      Welcome, metal guy. Sounds to me like the timer, but possibly another relay or a problem on the circuit board. Let's see if we can troubleshoot a bit. We know what's happening with the gas valve, but can you tell if the water cooling valve is working as it should? I'm assuming yes, because you said all other functions work OK. Can you hear/feel it click when you start and stop? The schematic copy I have isn't real clear, but it appears that if both the gas and water valves are sticking on, it could be a stuck relay CR2 or CR 4 and not the timer. As you say, not a good idea to start throwing parts at a problem.

      Does your machine have the pre-flow and/or spot time option?

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      • #4
        My machine is a basic one. No water valve, no spot timer and no pre-flow. I can see the relays open and close so I think they should be OK. The contacts look clean too. CR1 closes when I turn the machine on and stays on. The other 2 stay open until I push on the "go" pedal, then they close.
        Thanks for the help as I'm not real good with electronics.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
          You can get a #17V torch head and swap out what you have until you get the timer, or whatever the problem is, fixed.
          Ryan,
          That might be a good work around for a while. I looked around and there are some inexpensive 17V's available that would get me by for a while.
          Thanks,
          Jim

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          • #6
            Just tried to post some more info but it was suspected to be spam after I edited it to correct a spelling error. Here it is again. Will try reposting.

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            • #7
              Sorry to be so slow--been busy. From looking at the schematic, I can't tell exactly how the "trigger" to the timer works, and the copy I can print out of the circuit board is not clear enough for my ancient eyes to follow. However, here's my guess about how it works. I'm guessing CR5 and CR2 energize when you hit the pedal. CR2 turns on the gas, and you weld. CR5 energizing disconnects power from the timer while you're welding. When you let off the pedal, both relays de-energize. The NC contacts of CR5 therefore connect power to the timer and start it running. The timer has taken over for CR2 to hold the gas valve open; otherwise, you would have no postflow. After the timer times out, it takes power off of the gas valve and it opens, or at least it should if it was working. So, in my estimation, unless the gas valve is mechanically sticking, which it doesn't seem to be since it closed when you unplug it, it looks like you are correct--must be a bad timer.

              I looked up the TD1 part number a couple of places and found only "discontinued". However, I am a bit confused--one of the sites I saw called it a 'DELAY ON MAKE' timer; that is the opposite of how I thought it would work. If my guessing is correct, it should be a 'DELAY ON BREAK'. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of your particular machine can add some light to this.

              You might call Miller and see if they have a replacement part number for 052192.

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              • #8
                Nope--spam again.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Maybe you can send me your post and I can copy and paste it for you. See if it works that way.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
                    Maybe you can send me your post and I can copy and paste it for you. See if it works that way.
                    Good idea. Sent it to your email address I have in my contacts list.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aeronca41 View Post

                      Good idea. Sent it to your email address I have in my contacts list.
                      I must have an old address--bounced back. Will try PM here and see if it will let me do that.

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                      • #12
                        PM seemed to work.

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                        • #13
                          From Wayne:

                          Sorry to be so slow--been busy. From looking at the schematic, I can't tell exactly how the "trigger" to the timer works, and the copy I can print out of the circuit board is not clear enough for my ancient eyes to follow. However, here's my guess about how it works. I'm guessing CR5 and CR2 energize when you hit the pedal. CR2 turns on the gas, and you weld. CR5 energizing disconnects power from the timer while you're welding. When you let off the pedal, both relays de-energize. The NC contacts of CR5 therefore connect power to the timer and start it running. The timer has taken over for CR2 to hold the gas valve open; otherwise, you would have no postflow. After the timer times out, it takes power off of the gas valve and it opens, or at least it should if it was working. So, in my estimation, unless the gas valve is mechanically sticking, which it doesn't seem to be since it closed when you unplug it, it looks like you are correct--must be a bad timer.

                          I looked up the TD1 part number a couple of places and found only "discontinued". However, I am a bit confused--one of the sites I saw called it a 'DELAY ON MAKE' timer; that is the opposite of how I thought it would work. If my guessing is correct, it should be a 'DELAY ON BREAK'. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of your particular machine can add some light to this.

                          You might call Miller and see if they have a replacement part number for 052192.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It worked! Thanks, Ryan. So, the question for the webmaster is, why is it OK if you post it, but if I post it, it's spam? I will ask.

                            Ryan, just found your ".rr.com" email address and deleted the one that didn't work.
                            Last edited by Aeronca41; 08-12-2020, 06:54 AM.

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                            • #15
                              I even like spam....pan fried on toasted bread with mustard and mayo....

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