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Proper aluminium cleaning

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  • jjohn76
    replied
    Are you buying a Spoolgun setup for it, or adapting one you already havr? I have seen folks use the older Spoolmatic 1 with the WC-1 weld controllers on Syncrowaves. The WC-115A would work with the Spoolmatic 30A, with the trigger wires from the box going to pins A and B on your remote receptacle, then power from the wall. The Cobramatics I have used (both the spoolgun and the cabinet) have a posa-start control that sets the run-in speed for better starting on CC welders. Just some options whether you're looking for new or used.

    Are you using preheat?

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  • Meltedmetal
    replied
    It might be possible but probably not optimal.This from here:https://www.red-d-arc.com/pdf/Spoolm...ec%20Sheet.pdf

    WC-115A Weld Control
    #137 546 Without contactor
    #137 546-01-1 With contactor
    This control operates on 115 VAC, and is
    designed primarily for CC DC power sources.
    It can also be used with CV power sources
    or DC engine drives supplying 115 VAC.
    When used with a CC source, the control
    circuit functions in a voltage-sensing mode.
    When used with a CV source, it functions
    as a constant-speed circuit.

    Leave a comment:


  • aametalmaster
    replied
    Originally posted by Redbone15367 View Post
    Ryan it is water cooled. I just dont know if I can hook up a spool gun to it.
    I don't think you can hook a spool gun to that machine...Bob

    Leave a comment:


  • Redbone15367
    replied
    Ryan it is water cooled. I just dont know if I can hook up a spool gun to it.

    Leave a comment:


  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    I’ve never run on 1” aluminum with a spool gun, but the 3/8 is no problem. On something like that, I prefer 3/64 5356 wire. Maybe some others have some more experience. Preheat will go along way on the heavier stuff too.

    To run 300 amps on a tig torch, I hope it’s water cooled. Can’t imagine you’d get far before the torch turned into molten lava.

    If you’re not set up to make these repairs then you should take the steps to be set up or get someone who is to help you. Don’t just wing it.

    I think by prepping those welds really well you could do this properly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Redbone15367
    replied
    It's been a while. Update. I haven't been able to work on this but 2 days (weather). I had started to get it going and have a new problem. I can't get enough power to the machine. 100 amp is all I can get to it. Will run set to 300amps not enough near the flange. Someone mentioned using a spool gun to do this. Any idea if my syncrowave 300 will run a spool gun and if so what size I would need (amps). The main beam is 3/8 and the flange is 1 inch. Would I need a suitcase to run it or is my machine not compatible? I will call Miller tomorrow was just hoping for some insight so my ignorance on it doesn't show to much. Thanks again for the help.

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  • Redbone15367
    replied
    Fusion and Willis, thank you for the advice. My new torch did come in today. It's a wp18 rated for 350 amps. I've been waiting for it to start back up on it. I will pick up some cleaner for it well. Its gonna be a lot of work but doing the best I can.

    Leave a comment:


  • Willvis
    replied
    I love 4943, its pretty much all I use now in the MIG. I agree that 250 amps isnt enough for a TIG repair and even 300 amps would probably struggle. I think your right that those frames are probably not heat treated after welding but it is possible without use of an oven. In the oil / gas industry its done all the time by wrapping a pipe or vessel in these ceramic heating pads and covering with ceramic insulation. I've seen them do it on vessels that are 30 or more feet in diameter. That doesn't change the fact that the raw plate of the frame is likely 6061 t6 and all that tig welding isn't good for the hest treatment. The frames are probably designed so that the heat from the original welding isnt affecting the strength in critical areas. Where as you start throwing a ton of heat into it in certain areas who know what that may be doing to it.

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  • FusionKing
    replied
    "Power Line" makes a product called "Aluma Brite". They also make "Aluma Clean". They are very similar. I use them both for this type of crap. (Google them) Napa has a great aluminum cleaner too. This is truck stuff that is common in parts stores. Acid based wheel cleaner is also very good for this. Same thing. You have to get all that salt crap out of there.
    Just spray on full strength and rinse. Probably 2 or 3 times. If that doesn't do it then switch to "purple cleaner" and scrub. Then back to the acid.
    You have to rinse A LOT. All that road junk is gonna rise to the top when you get going.
    The back side of that repair is gonna be the real challenge. It has to be as nice as the outside. If it looks like what I have seen myself, then you have a ton more prepping to do. If that is where the cross members join the frame you will be very lucky to get them to weld decent.
    You are gonna need a ton of pre-heat to get any sort of a decent weld with only a 250 amp torch. All that mass will be sucking away all your heat. 250 amps would barely work. good chance you will burn up your torch. You better buy a spare. I use CK 230 which is rated at 300. I would expect to fry that on this job.
    A "pro" shop would use a push-pull gun and much more power. Penetration would be much deeper using MIG on this.
    As for Junking the trailer goes.....they do have a life expectancy. When that is over they are retired. Plain and simple. They only last so many cycles. Everyone sees these go down the highway all the time. When empty they are arched up real high. They are much flatter at full capacity. The frame is basically a spring. Patching on one end or the other doesn't see much flex. Patching in the middle is a whole other scenario. Steel ones are much longer lasting but being able to haul more payload is worth it to a company and the life of the trailer is figured into the budget.
    There actually needs to be a new plate between the crossmember and the web on the inside. (for an optimum repair)
    The frame cracked where flex meets stiff. You are going to change that a lot. In my opinion both frame rails should be equal to have equal flex.
    Plating with 5052 should work ok.... just know it isn't "proper". It isn't in the heat treat family. It's work hardening instead. I would use 4943 filler from Hobart. It is stronger and supersedes 4043. Only Hobart has it.
    Also know that the MFG is in the business of making new trailers and not repairing them, so their advice would be of very little use, if any. It would not be something they could officially endorse unless it was warranty.
    I am a shop that is capable of these types of repairs with the proper insurance. I would not tig this do to the large heat affected zone and lack of ability to feed rod on the back side assuming the clearance issues. I would use my mig instead. If I decided to weld it. Good chance I would only fix/weld the damaged area on both sides. Then maybe consider making a longer plate and bolting it instead on both frame rails to be equal. In that case I would use 6061 plate. As long of a piece as I could get, like 144"
    You can bet your tail this frame was never heat treated.....ever. Consider the size of the oven required!
    Hopefully you will get it patched up enough to use it for a while, but you will always have to be inspecting that back side where the parts actually attach.
    These are just my thoughts and opinions and only wish to help. I can respect you wanting to do these repairs yourself. Good luck!!


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  • Redbone15367
    replied
    Thank you Mac. I did some work on a side box for my repair shop. Help them they help me. I will post pics as I go. Just doing what I can. You guys are great.

    Leave a comment:


  • MAC702
    replied
    Originally posted by MMW View Post
    ...As far as welding on trailer/truck frames, just my opinion but it is done every day. I do not know what people expect you to do,,just junk it?....
    Agreed. And there is a big difference between welding crack repairs for the cargo deck, and welding on the suspension and steering components.

    Sometimes you get the vibe that a hack is about to be negligent, but this thread isn't one of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • MMW
    replied
    Never used a gas lens, never had problems with the regular lens so have not seen the need. As far as welding on trailer/truck frames, just my opinion but it is done every day. I do not know what people expect you to do,,just junk it? I agree you have to be careful and have common sense but most times things are repairable. Looks like you are on your way to an excellent repair.

    Leave a comment:


  • Redbone15367
    replied
    Terry, I did know that it changed it, just didn't know the specifics of it. It is a t6 6000 series frame. But like I said this what the manufacturer engineers said to do. The plates will be a few inches longer than the weld which they said would spread the tension and stress from the weld. The plate is a 5000 series, I can't remember 5053 or 5056. I'm not to familiar with aluminium alloy and just bought what they had said.
    . Just doing what they said. I'm hoping it turns out and works. Once I start pulling it again I will definitely be keep a close eye on it. I've seen a couple done already, but yes heat is a concern.

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  • ryanjones2150
    replied
    I prefer a regular gas cone and collet for aluminum. At times I may put on a gas lense if I need to stick the tungsten out a good ways to get into a tight spot.

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  • tarry99
    replied
    Redbone "I have a 48 foot semi all aluminium flatbed trailer I am working on. Aluminum is a whole new can of worms."

    I have been watching this thread for a bit...........and I am somewhat concerned you have limited knowledge about the needed procedures?.....

    First I would bet that material is a heat treated aluminum alloy of some sort......which needs to be determined. More than likely perhaps a 50 or 60 series aluminum or combination of which certain guidelines have to be strictly followed in order to maintain strength once you've welded on it.........things like pre and post heating have to be considered in some form or another as these alloys are very susceptible to time at temperature and the higher and longer at temperature the more significant the loss of strength in the base metal becomes adjacent to the welding zone as these large areas of metal act as a heat sink drawing heat away from the zone. So controlling the the overall heat input , preheating and interpass temperatures is really important as the alloy can lose significant PSI tensile strength during the process...........this really becomes very technical if reliability is what your after...........you may also consider filler alloy 4643 as it was designed in lieu of using 4043 as a better alloy when post weld heat treating is considered.............heat treating in this realm is also complicated as its all about aging at certain temperatures for certain periods of time.

    I'm no expert but have been around this stuff and if not done properly the project can become just a large pile of yard art......Good Luck!
    Last edited by tarry99; 12-24-2019, 09:50 AM.

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