Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Shall we talk about solenoids?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Shall we talk about solenoids?

    Yes let’s do. My 211 has a sticky solenoid that causes it to hang after welding. Sometimes it hangs 15%.... sometimes 75% open. I’ve resorted to a quick smack above the solenoid after welding that has a 90% effectiveness. That other ten percent is the reason I can’t sleep at night. the obvious answer is call miller.....again.... for the second time in two weeks and spend another $65 (seems to be the price for everything) to have them send me a new solenoid. Being that I just did this for a fan, I’m feeling stubborn. Are there any solenoids in the US (seems to be the biggest hurdle) under $35 with a 24v trigger that anyone is aware of?
    Last edited by One1; 10-19-2019, 10:17 PM.

  • #2
    Dc 24v

    Comment


    • #3
      You paid with Visa right? Sounds to me like a reason to return something? Defective product. However...are you sure it's not leaking from the regulator flowmeter? How did you test the solenoid? Have you an approved leak test solution or did you use soap and water checking for leaks at connections ?

      I'm assuming your getting 24V to suck the thing open but it's hanging open on return or the trigger released? If that was the case you'd be seeing the ball rise with the flow? You seeing that?

      Comment


      • #4
        Just out of curiosity, did anybody apply power to the coil of the solenoid while the coil was separated from the valve body? That'll warp things enough to cause a leak.

        Can we include dashpots and mercury timers too so things don't get boring?

        BTW, ain't diddle special about that solenoid so you can probably get a replacement for 10 bucks direct from China like the manufacturer does.
        Last edited by Franz©; 10-20-2019, 01:39 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Franz© View Post
          Just out of curiosity, did anybody apply power to the coil of the solenoid while the coil was separated from the valve body? That'll warp things enough to cause a leak.

          Can we include dashpots and mercury timers too so things don't get boring?

          BTW, ain't diddle special about that solenoid so you can probably get a replacement for 10 bucks direct from China like the manufacturer does.
          What he said! Take it apart, find out what size fittings are on it, and head for ebay. I'm assuming your machine is out of warranty, so if you have to make up a new mounting bracket, no problem. Paying $65 would be my absolute last resort. Technically, in the electronics world, the "solenoid" is only the coil of wire; you are looking for a "solenoid actuated gas valve". In general, they are not cheap, so I sort of get the $65, but you should be able to do better. If you're brave, you might be able to disassemble it and maybe find a little piece of crud stuck inside that's moving around and causing the intermittent problem. I haven't looked at the valve, but you may have to be prepared to make your own gasket to reassemble it.

          Also, cruise the electrical/electronic surplus places on the web. Never can tell when they might get some solenoid valves.

          Comment


          • #6
            My only experience with miller gas solenoids is it had a molded plastic housing that was the mounting bracket. It fit into a socket on the back of the machine and a plastic nut to tighten it. I have no idea if that’s a normal configuration, like if miller uses off the shelf parts, or if it’s a dedicated application.

            For me, the down time would be more valuable than the $65 for the part. That seems like about what I paid for the one I replaced a year or two ago. I think I got mine from miller4less.

            Comment


            • #7
              I wish it came apart. I’ve already looked. The silver part that covers the shaft of the o-ring isn’t moving for me.
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • #8
                The silver part rotates but won’t pull off to access the o-ring.

                another oddity, the miller relay doesn’t match the 24v trigger specs of the feed line.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #9
                  So...it's confirmed that the solenoid is a leaker. Or rather, not sealing shut when released? Just curious, what shielding gas are you using? Straight CO2 or a mixed gas? If that was mine to fudge with I know what I'd do before replacing it. I'd try to clean it. Soak it in vinegar, work the plunger, blow it out and see if it worked? But if you are running a cheap regulator flow meter, I'd check that out as a leak source, especially if you recently replaced a gas cylinder and noticed this occurring. You don't mention having done that? And if you were using CO2, did you loose a washer by chance?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    They said it was an o-ring, but I see metal to metal. I’m sure cleaning will improve it but i need to trigger it and it will close when the cleaner neutralizes the polarity.

                    bottom line is i want a replacement that isn’t millers $65 option.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Didn't need to get too far into the pictures of the disassembled body to see Carbonic Acid erosion of cheap brass.

                      There was a point in time, I was one of HoFart's beta testers, and SupergalacticCorp brought in a test batch of new gas regulators for low end MIG. Factory fellow I interfaced with knew I ran Co2 only, so he warned me the regulator would probably self destruct because the alloy of the body was some mix they found in China.

                      I ran the thing for a couple days and learned ChinkCorp was saving 1/10 cent per unit by eliminating the pipe dope where the CGA 320 stem entered the housing, and gas was pouring out there.

                      Long and short of it, the regulator was crap assembled by some prisoner sitting on a 3 legged stool in his cell working for rice. The brass quality sucked too. SupergalacticIntercontinental naturally went to shipping the cheap regulators with no pipe dope to people who bought orange & white imitation welders.

                      REPLACE THE VALVE ENTIRELY
                      ​​​​​​​It ain't rocket proctology and you ain't flying it thru space.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There is no telling what they used and put this through. In the 2 weeks I’ve had it it’s getting c25, which is all i run with mig.

                        i hit it with carb cleaner and the leakdown has slowed. Still present.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I might have one of those layin’ around in the shop. When I get home tomorrow I’ll see if I can find it. If it’ll work for you, you can have it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Put up a picture of the portion of the machine showing the valve assembly..

                            I got a hunch.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It might be worth testing the voltage across the solenoid leads before replacing it, just to confirm the voltage goes to 24V when the trigger is depressed and returns to 0V after the prescribed post flow.

                              Edit- looking at the technical manual, you shouldn't be seeing 24V at the leads. That should be 120V AC or off, which matches the relay.
                              Last edited by jjohn76; 10-20-2019, 02:50 PM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X