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Why is it?

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  • Why is it?

    People who routinely spend $1000 on a device, even more on laptops, TVs, and other entertainment or status confirming devices with full knowledge such contraptions are throw away because repair is not possible for want of parts or skilled craftsmen think a welder crammed full of unnecessary electronics is easily repairable if they just throw a half azzed post on a board?

    WHY do people acknowledge their "device" or TV is throw away but insist the welder they bought that the manufacturer won't fix can be repaired by them?

  • #2
    I remember when Tv's had tubes and you could kind of fix them? Heck, I'm holding on to a 50" Sony with a cracked screen hoping to find a replacement and fix it? But I get what your saying. Like walking up to the parts counter saying I drive a blue car, it's a Honda, It's not running like it should, any ideas?

    Now I think a guy should be able to fix what he buys. Or be able to attempt repairs. I don't think it's hard if the information to do so is offered up. GM sells manuals on how to fix what's broken. I'm surprized Miller hasn't got a book out for that? Or Lincoln, ESAB...

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    • #3
      Your book concept rests on the presumption "Miller" "HoFart" and others A know how to fix what they peddled direct from factory to user via some clown in his jammies in mom's cellar, creating an illusion of low price by eliminating the DEALER who built the Miller Electric brand of welder.
      The eliminated DEALER was also 1st line diagnosis and repair along with parts, and fed 411 back to Miller Electric.

      That business plan is not supported by Supergiantmegaglobal and UNITS moved out the door along with the 80/20 religion is paramount along with employing gynoamerikans to meet EEOC numbers.

      Remember this all began with the fabled MM-250 long ago on the floor of a DISTRIBUTOR near you.

      The execs of Supergiantmegaglobal forgot to Patent every screw while Lincoln was whipping them bloody over Hobart so they lost additional rplacement parts business when they followed the DeSupport road of machines in the field.
      Only thing Supergiantmegaglobal got to sell is machines, and that don't happen when machine owners can fix the machines in the field.


      • #4
        I've long held the belief that a holy book exists. A book that allows for the layman to understand, grasp and apply a rudamentry knowledge to figuring how things work. Welding machine repair shouldn't be an exception on the list.
        I came close to buying a cooked and fried dead Dynasty200 a month back. Call me cocky but I thought I could fix it. I offered him $50 he wanted $200. He got a $100 from another guy who wanted it more it seems?

        Now I don't know the history, saga or drama of the gang holding the secrets, but I know perseverence pays off.

        Only one small problem that I can see?


        • #5
          Let me guess, your Manderin SUCKS.
          Fortunately I know of a concentration of Chinee Manderin speakers in Denver who could translate. Most are currently laboring as fake Japanese chopping dead rotting fish into bait trays for fools who eat raw dead fish and call it some fancy name.

          Seems I read someplace Sam's Photofacts went out of business as well due to lack of market.

          On the good side I can still find the TV tuner rebuild guy, and he still has inventory. The guy with the shop buried in the river bank who rebuilt CRTs went out of business and nobody bought his shop or inventory.
          I might know where there are 3 ***lords of eefed ESAB boards but they're genuine ESAB and probably no longer wanted.

          Then there is the matter of unidentifiable black lumps of plastic with pins that make them ideal thumbtacks that can't be had unless you have a hook on the Indian Subcontinent.

          Meanwhile machines built in the 1930s continue to run well and machines built in the 60s can be repaired.
          The rest, like the 1200 amp power supply for a SubArc machine I once crawled into are destined for the boat back to China to come back as something not yet invented.


          • #6
            Yup, that's the problem. Can't read speak or write the language. Now the thing with translating...The getting lost in translation is what I'd wonder about? You think it would come across the same way in explanation? I'm thinking it would have to be rewritten? I base that on my reading of car manuals. GM, Honda, BMW. Seems they are written differently and I just assumed maybe the book would be laid out, written from a similar style difference as mentioned? Like asking for directions.

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            But I think the ability to fix a welder is right up there with fixing your car. Only needed when it breaks down. Getting harder to do I must admit.


            • #7
              I got a hunch the Chinee book is not only written in them funny characters, it also probably only covers welders made in China, not that such is a problem for most US manufacturers.

              Manderin to English is rarely a direct translation either.

              Bud of mine did his EE Masters program at Cornell. The instructor was in China, a contract employee of the University who was less than fully conversant in American Standard English. It was entertaining some sessions.


              • #8
                Click image for larger version

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ID:	602484I took these plugs out of the van I've mentioned in another post I have on the go. They are sitting on my make shift plate welding table. Anyways, I hooked my syncrowave up and ran a spark test with the high frequency. Lol. I got about the third one done, when I wondered if it was a smart thing to be doing? Then I said, well...5 more to go.

                I'm the guy that breaks it, I'm the guy that fixes it. Even in Mandarin, if it had pictures I'm sure i'd be helpful.


                • #9
                  You're supposed to use the Mod T coil in the Champion or Autolite spark plug cleaner for that, not the welding machine.

                  Sure wish I could find new rubbers for my Champion machine.

                  There's a lot to be said for testing the plug under cylinder pressure too as I recall what the old guys told me.


                  • #10
                    I was acting on impulse, pushed by curiosity, driven by frustration. Only defense I have for what I did. Would have liked to have seen the results if the argon actually covered the spark path. Looks like rain all day so I might have to give that a try?


                    • #11
                      WHY do people acknowledge their "device" or TV is throw away but insist the welder they bought that the manufacturer won't fix can be repaired by them?
                      Most people replace their entertainment devices, not because they fail but because they become outdated. I have 10 year old laptops sitting in piles that still function fine but I wouldn't ever actually use them for anything.


                      • #12
                        Noel are you going for an Argon enveloped Jacobs Ladder?

                        Kwan as someone who has interfaced with computers since 1981 I find your reference to laptops as "entertainment devices" quite interesting..
                        Frustration devices on many days to be sure, less so in 2019 than they were in 1981, but rarely entertainment. Then again, I recall 110 baud and 300 baud as high speed, and the $800 Hayes Stack modem as the dream device if your phone line could support 1200baud.

                        I well recall Lincoln TIG machines the size of a refrigerator with a modular phone plug in the back so Big Red could access the machine in the low cost overnight phone rate hours to troubleshoot and update. Those Machines Accomplished communication at 300 baud. The troubleshooting feature was valuable, and Lincoln used a lot of the information gathered to make the next generation better machines. They sure screwed up the 1st generation up a lot.

                        Actually there is still much equipment in the industrial world functioning at 110 and 300 baud, and the County system here still runs multiple DOS programs primarily because they are reliable and not hackable. Much of the CNC world and many hospitals are still running Win 95 or 98.
                        The "need for speed" in computing is in my perception an illusion created by marketing to get buyers to spend money they haven't made yet and may well never make. Master Card has become the Master.

                        Frankly, I don't and probably won't in this lifetime find computers to be entertainment.


                        • #13
                          It may be because most of those electronic devices mentioned have gone to SMD components, multi-layer boards, and programmable logic to handle loads of data quickly in a small and fragile package. Welders' state machine functions are much easier to understand and troubleshoot. Those devices mentioned are more tedious to troubleshoot, and even more tedious to repair. And even the most skilled craftsmen can't fix these welders economically without a schematic, which is not widely available. That's step 1b, and sometimes it's cheaper and more rewarding to do that personally. Sometimes... It is always easier and more rewarding to help someone else through their troubleshooting online. If my posts are contributing to your frustrations, my apologies, but I have to say I do appreciate the entertaining effects...
                          Last edited by jjohn76; 09-27-2019, 08:11 AM.


                          • #14
                            Ft. Lewis, John? That was my duty station, spent 10 years up there. How’s Ruston Way looking these days? I always liked it down there.

                            ....but on this thread....I was sitting around the shop with absolutely nothing at all to do and was wondering is there any way we (as in the active contributors to this forum) could start a thread that would actively discourage someone from posting a question/problem/call for help regarding their broken welding machine? “Nah”, I thought, we couldn’t possibly do that.....

                            .....continues down the slide into irrelevance.... Good work boys.


                            • #15
                              Ryan, I am at Lewis, though they churched it up a bit recently by joining it with McChord... Rustin is expanding, and more of a place my wife enjoys nowadays. Rustin is the place I go lately to payback to the family bank the time I spend in the shop.

                              I am catching up on the recent troubleshooting help threads, and am guessing this one came from the Sync 351? Am I the only one who enjoyed pulling up the manual, figuring out the likely issue, and then started to write a post before realizing Aero already covered all bases? I must be too new at this...