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  • Economics of propane vs acetylene

    Acetylene is getting to expensive around here. My last refill was $65.00 for 145 cubic feet. Is there any reason for me to keep a tank of acetylene around? I know that you can't gas weld with propane but I have a TIG, MIG and Stick so I don't know what I would need to gas weld? I do braze something occasionally but understand I can use propane for that.

    I also understand that with propane you use a lot more oxygen than if using acetylene. My last refill of oxygen was $24.00 for 251 cubic feet. I can get propane for around $2.50 gallon

    I have a Spectrum 625 so I do 90% of my cutting with that. The oxy fuel rig is mainly for heating metal as well as occasionally cutting some 1/2" or so plate.
    If you are interested in antique tractors https://antiquetractorblogger.blogspot.com

  • #2
    If you don’t use much acetylene then why bother changing?

    I actually have both but have never tried cutting with propane. I only use it for soldering and brazing unless it’s copper tubing, like for AC stuff, then I braze with acetylene.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
      If you don’t use much acetylene then why bother changing?

      I actually have both but have never tried cutting with propane. I only use it for soldering and brazing unless it’s copper tubing, like for AC stuff, then I braze with acetylene.
      I used over half a bottle of acetylene trying to get a 1" pin out of my backhoe. When I got the refill I was shocked at the price as the last refill was $40.00. I still don't have the pin out so I can expect to use a lot more until that job is done.
      If you are interested in antique tractors https://antiquetractorblogger.blogspot.com

      Comment


      • #4
        I cut with propane almost everyday for 5 years at work. I cut plate 1" thick with zero problems. Most guys couldn't do it and had to use a plasma cutter. I used it for years in a wrecking yard. And the Acetylene shortage a few years ago was just an Airgass ploy to drive up the prices and it worked. Most LWS guys still charge about the same as a few years ago ..Bob
        Bob Wright

        Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.
        http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...php?albumid=48

        Comment


        • #5
          Well, if you lassooed a deer you should already know them pins are made of an alloy called sunuvabychium that hardens as it rides the truck from factory to customer.

          Then they spend years in holes in another alloy called miserableshytium and pretty much machine themselves into a single chunk that resists mans attempts to disassemble because there are also perfectly fitted ridges and grooves to resist lateral movement.
          Crapperpillar led the industry for years developing these alloys and engineering pin and bushing tech.
          Crap Techs ride around in white trucks with cranes and compressors demonstrating the use of Slide Sledge the $900- tool for pin removal till lunch. After lunch they generally just blow the pin out and load the bucket to go to the shop for rebuild.
          Green Techs don't have Slide Sledge because it won't interface with their laptop.

          My preference goes to the .580 hammer followed by the 40 pound clay spade hammer even though I swiped the Slide Sledge idea and improved it to deadblow tech.

          Far as heating is concerned, Propane/Air is for heating. O/A is for cutting and welding and O/P is for volume cutting when you're buying Oxy in liquid form. Propane by its nature requires ner twice the Oxygen per delivered Kbtu as Acetylene. Propane is also nicer for cutting multilayer and rusty steel.
          We're a long way down the rails from the days of highrailers carrying 2 big Acetylene bottles to deliver to their rosebuds.

          Heating for disassembly doesn't require the temperature Acetylene can deliver, and there are multiple studies proving heating above 1200°f delivers more disadvantage than advantage getting components apart.

          Backhoes are special critters offering up just about every possible problem. Bottom line, blow the pin and get to fixin.
          Murex used to offer a lovely rubber coated rod for underwater cutting, but it seems to have fallen off the inventory sheet since LinKoon bought Murex, probably caused by some cubicle dwelling neck tie wearing cow ledge kid.
          If you have a stash of brake tubing and some Micky D plastic straws you can make your own and blow pins sufficiently to disassemble.
          I highly recommend setting up an angle iron track for the burning bar toride and pushing it with a broomstick to stay clear of the flying molten crap.
          Ofcource if you have money to spend you can buy a Slice unit.

          Then you can either weld in new bushings or rebuild the holes using carbon rod to save machining time.

          Comment


          • #6
            Is it possible a HSS lathe bit and a boring bar put into a magdrill would clean up or make a new pinhole by feeling your way into the hole.?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tackit View Post
              Is it possible a HSS lathe bit and a boring bar put into a magdrill would clean up or make a new pinhole by feeling your way into the hole.?
              I'd give that a high score on the unlikely scale Tack.
              CrapperPillar shop just welds a fixture onto the boom or bucket and bolts a boring bar on. Still takes most of a day to set up and bore a boom or bucket.
              Far easier to install bushings and line em up as you weld, then hopefully you just pull the new pin and nothing goes BOING.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Franz© View Post
                Well, if you lassooed a deer you should already know them pins are made of an alloy called sunuvabychium that hardens as it rides the truck from factory to customer.

                Then they spend years in holes in another alloy called miserableshytium and pretty much machine themselves into a single chunk that resists mans attempts to disassemble because there are also perfectly fitted ridges and grooves to resist lateral movement.
                Crapperpillar led the industry for years developing these alloys and engineering pin and bushing tech.
                Crap Techs ride around in white trucks with cranes and compressors demonstrating the use of Slide Sledge the $900- tool for pin removal till lunch. After lunch they generally just blow the pin out and load the bucket to go to the shop for rebuild.
                Green Techs don't have Slide Sledge because it won't interface with their laptop.

                My preference goes to the .580 hammer followed by the 40 pound clay spade hammer even though I swiped the Slide Sledge idea and improved it to deadblow tech.

                Far as heating is concerned, Propane/Air is for heating. O/A is for cutting and welding and O/P is for volume cutting when you're buying Oxy in liquid form. Propane by its nature requires ner twice the Oxygen per delivered Kbtu as Acetylene. Propane is also nicer for cutting multilayer and rusty steel.
                We're a long way down the rails from the days of highrailers carrying 2 big Acetylene bottles to deliver to their rosebuds.

                Heating for disassembly doesn't require the temperature Acetylene can deliver, and there are multiple studies proving heating above 1200°f delivers more disadvantage than advantage getting components apart.

                Backhoes are special critters offering up just about every possible problem. Bottom line, blow the pin and get to fixin.
                Murex used to offer a lovely rubber coated rod for underwater cutting, but it seems to have fallen off the inventory sheet since LinKoon bought Murex, probably caused by some cubicle dwelling neck tie wearing cow ledge kid.
                If you have a stash of brake tubing and some Micky D plastic straws you can make your own and blow pins sufficiently to disassemble.
                I highly recommend setting up an angle iron track for the burning bar toride and pushing it with a broomstick to stay clear of the flying molten crap.
                Ofcource if you have money to spend you can buy a Slice unit.

                Then you can either weld in new bushings or rebuild the holes using carbon rod to save machining time.
                I actually bought a used backhoe attachment for my John Deere compact track loader. The previous owner never greased it so that one pin where the bucket attaches to the dipperstick is stuck. Since it's stuck the two bolts that hold it in place at each end werebroke off and were gone. At the moment the outer portion of the bucket just rotates on the pin vs rotating in the middle where it's about 6" wide. I thought that if I put a bolt back in each side and then heated it up I could rotate the bucket and the pin would twist and break free- Wrong! It bent one bolt and broke the other one off. I had to drill one bolt out and in the process ended up drilling through part of the pin. Since the pin drilled that easy I should be able to just drill a hole from each end at least that's the plan. If not I will take it up to the heavy equipment repair place up the road and let them burn it out

                I am familiar with a Turbo Torch for air/acetylene but have never heard of air/propane for heating. What kind of torch is this?

                Thanks again


                If you are interested in antique tractors https://antiquetractorblogger.blogspot.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  The red handles one is TurboTorch but I don't see a number on it. Turbo is now part of a Super Conglomerate Global, so the big torches may be dropped from the line.
                  I don't see them at https://www.macombgroup.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/TTA11_Broc.pdf
                  Make sure you're sitting with Oxygen handy when you see the prices.

                  Right here is a fine torch
                  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Goss-Long-P...EAAOSwThddbwya

                  China copy is half the price and gets just as hot. Even has a pushbutton lighter built in for girlymen who might pee themselves lighting a torch.
                  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Propane-Tor....c100005.m1851

                  I've got several sets of Turbo A/Propane with some pretty big burner heads, and I'm glad I haven't gotta buy them at today's prices.

                  You can make an Air/Propane torch out of a couple tubes and a MIG tip if you have a valve.


                  The little silver one is currently hiding so it don't get returned to Diesel warming duty in my under oilpan tube heater I put together from swiped ideas. It's my Yanmar version of a CoolRayVac tube using what I had on hand.

                  You an also get lucky on ePay and StufISwipedFromWork List by searching Roofer Torch. Lot of them roofers borrow torches and sell em for dope money.

                  If you can get a hole through the pin, whittle from the hole outward with an O/A torch as big as you dare, and then pump water through the hole so it shrinks fast.

                  This video gives you an idea how to do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOEu5x2EJsk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Franz© View Post
                    The red handles one is TurboTorch but I don't see a number on it. Turbo is now part of a Super Conglomerate Global, so the big torches may be dropped from the line.
                    I don't see them at https://www.macombgroup.com/ASSETS/DOCUMENTS/ITEMS/EN/TTA11_Broc.pdf
                    Make sure you're sitting with Oxygen handy when you see the prices.

                    Right here is a fine torch
                    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Goss-Long-P...EAAOSwThddbwya

                    China copy is half the price and gets just as hot. Even has a pushbutton lighter built in for girlymen who might pee themselves lighting a torch.
                    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Propane-Tor....c100005.m1851

                    I've got several sets of Turbo A/Propane with some pretty big burner heads, and I'm glad I haven't gotta buy them at today's prices.

                    You can make an Air/Propane torch out of a couple tubes and a MIG tip if you have a valve.


                    The little silver one is currently hiding so it don't get returned to Diesel warming duty in my under oilpan tube heater I put together from swiped ideas. It's my Yanmar version of a CoolRayVac tube using what I had on hand.

                    You an also get lucky on ePay and StufISwipedFromWork List by searching Roofer Torch. Lot of them roofers borrow torches and sell em for dope money.

                    If you can get a hole through the pin, whittle from the hole outward with an O/A torch as big as you dare, and then pump water through the hole so it shrinks fast.

                    This video gives you an idea how to do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOEu5x2EJsk
                    Sorry, just saw this post. Do these torches get hot enough for heating metal to expand it to remove parts? For example, heat the large nut on a Bush hog blade or the metal around that backhoe pin so I can get it out? I thought these were mainly for burning weeds. Thanks
                    If you are interested in antique tractors https://antiquetractorblogger.blogspot.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re your examples- NEVER heat the nut on a Brush Hog, it is either Nylock or another type of loccking nut. Impact guns are also generally counterproductive on such nuts. Use long handled wrenches, including a reench to hold the blade.
                      The pin is more likely being held by a wear shoulder, and other than melting something blowing the middle out of the pin will be most cost effective.

                      Heating beyond 1200°f is usually a waste of heat and destructive.
                      Propane/air is well capable of delivering that heat.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Franz© View Post
                        Re your examples- NEVER heat the nut on a Brush Hog, it is either Nylock or another type of loccking nut. Impact guns are also generally counterproductive on such nuts. Use long handled wrenches, including a reench to hold the blade.
                        The pin is more likely being held by a wear shoulder, and other than melting something blowing the middle out of the pin will be most cost effective.

                        Heating beyond 1200°f is usually a waste of heat and destructive.
                        Propane/air is well capable of delivering that heat.
                        This ain't my first rodeo. Been taking the nuts off that way for 35 years. Real Bush Hog brand don't have nylon they use lock washers. Heat up the nut until it expanded and take it off with a 3/4" breaker bar and 4' cheater pipe. You don't have to hold the bolt as they won't spin as they have flats on two sides
                        Then to get the bolt out you have to heat up the whole assembly to expand it, and then take a large punch and sledge hammer and knock the bolt out. Then when you replace the wore out bolts and blades put some antiseize on 'em.
                        If you are interested in antique tractors https://antiquetractorblogger.blogspot.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Franz© View Post
                          Re your examples- NEVER heat the nut on a Brush Hog, it is either Nylock or another type of loccking nut. Impact guns are also generally counterproductive on such nuts. Use long handled wrenches, including a reench to hold the blade.
                          The pin is more likely being held by a wear shoulder, and other than melting something blowing the middle out of the pin will be most cost effective.

                          Heating beyond 1200°f is usually a waste of heat and destructive.
                          Propane/air is well capable of delivering that heat.
                          As johndeerefarmer mentioned - this is done a LOT. If you've ever worked on rusty cars a torch is the first tool you reach for, then the traditional tools. Exhaust manifold studs/nuts - don't even try unless they're bright red unless you like drilling out broken off studs. Ball joints, tie rod ends, idler arms, U bolts, etc.

                          Air/Acet (Turbotorch) won't get a nut over ~3/8" hot enough to get it loose if it's really rusted on. The temperature of the flame is very hot, however the size of the flame does not put enough heat into the bolt and the surrounding material to get it hot enough, fast enough to make a dent. Similar thing with backhoe pins - I've had a pair of Oxy/Acet rosebuds on a backhoe pin and with both one one side could just barely get it do a dull red and couldn't get it to come out. Just too much material carrying heat away compared to how many BTU''s we were putting in.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Back on the farm, my Gramps always told me, when working on the implements and you’re replacing a bolt you ever want to have a chance at taking off again without a fight, a touch of grease on the threads is your best friend before you put it back in. I’m sure he was doing that since before fancy anti-seize came along.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Lockwashers on blade nuts must be another place JollyGreen cheaped out on. My mower has Nylock, and requires no heat.
                              It's all a matter of knowing what you're doing and what the job requires.

                              Getting iron red hot in a single element of a nut/screw connection serves no purpose since both elements are expanding once the nut has gone beyond 1200°f.

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