project: lowering flowrates for Dual-Shield Flux core

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  • OscarJr
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2014
    • 753

    #31
    I just made another one for one of my smaller MIGs, that uses an MB24KD mig gun. This is for running 035 dual shield.



    In this one, I integrated from the beginning, a slight 2.5° downward droop to the conical tip I welded on. This takes into account the downward slope the wire takes when using the mfg recommended stickout.




    Using 0.035 E71T-1C/1M. Ran beautifully. Only needs 5/16" to 3/8" from nozzle-to-work to achieve the mgf required ~7/8" electrical stickout. I only used ~19 CFH for this.





    HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
    HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
    HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
    HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
    HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
    HTP Microcut 875SC

    Comment

    • OscarJr
      Senior Member
      • Jun 2014
      • 753

      #32
      No porosity or any other such purported issues. Just a nice clean weld without wasting a crap ton of shielding gas.

      HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
      HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
      HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
      HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
      HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
      HTP Microcut 875SC

      Comment

      • MAC702
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2002
        • 3756

        #33
        Originally posted by OscarJr View Post
        ...I only used ~19 CFH for this.
        Did you do a control with 19 CFH with the old nozzle and long stickout?

        Comment

        • OscarJr
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2014
          • 753

          #34
          Originally posted by MAC702 View Post

          Did you do a control with 19 CFH with the old nozzle and long stickout?
          Yep, with the mfg recommended stick out and such low gas flow, you get a lot of worm tracks due to insufficient gas coverage.
          HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
          HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
          HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
          HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
          HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
          HTP Microcut 875SC

          Comment

          • ryanjones2150
            Senior Member
            • Jul 2014
            • 5961

            #35
            Man that .035 dual shield wire is expensive here in Beaumont. I can get a 44lbs roll of .045 dual shield wire cheaper than I can get a 10lbs roll of .035! Stuff is like gold or something.

            Cool experiment, Oscar.

            Comment

            • OscarJr
              Senior Member
              • Jun 2014
              • 753

              #36
              I guess it just depends on the seller. That bead from today was HTP 035 dual shield. Two 035/10lb spools for $80 shipped. Runs very well IMO. But yea, 045 is definitely the most popular dual shield wire for 200A-300A machines, and larger diameter wires are almost always cheaper per pound than thinner wires. Most 30-33lbs spools of 045 E71T-1C/1M are $95 ±$25, depending how cheap or expensive you want to go.

              i would have thought the Houston region would have really good pricing on consumables since a lot of welding company suppliers are headquartered near there.
              Last edited by OscarJr; 08-31-2019, 09:15 PM.
              HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
              HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
              HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
              HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
              HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
              HTP Microcut 875SC

              Comment

              • ryanjones2150
                Senior Member
                • Jul 2014
                • 5961

                #37
                My LWS’s excuse was they don’t sell much of the .035 so they don’t buy much of it, but the
                .045 they get by the container load. Whatever. Dadgum highway robbers they are. I was using esab and Lincoln, mostly because it’s what my lws carries, but I recently switched to select-arc dual shield. They claim the flux does not absorb moisture like other brands do, which contributes significantly to the worm tracks and porosity. I’d say they’re right. It’s the best wire I’ve run. I’ll have to get some of the HTP wire and give it a try though. Especially at that price.

                Comment

                • OscarJr
                  Senior Member
                  • Jun 2014
                  • 753

                  #38
                  Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
                  My LWS’s excuse was they don’t sell much of the .035 so they don’t buy much of it, but the
                  .045 they get by the container load. Whatever. Dadgum highway robbers they are. I was using esab and Lincoln, mostly because it’s what my lws carries, but I recently switched to select-arc dual shield. They claim the flux does not absorb moisture like other brands do, which contributes significantly to the worm tracks and porosity. I’d say they’re right. It’s the best wire I’ve run. I’ll have to get some of the HTP wire and give it a try though. Especially at that price.
                  That's where the internet comes into the playing field. It sure has changed the way the game is played, for some items. I've also had good luck running beads of 035 Kiswel E71TM. You can get two 10lb spools of 035 for $55 shipped on Ebay. They have a factory in Kentucky where they say their wire is made. HTP is also made in USA, but I don't know who makes it for them.
                  HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
                  HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
                  HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
                  HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
                  HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
                  HTP Microcut 875SC

                  Comment

                  • Noel
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2017
                    • 1029

                    #39
                    E71TM has me confused. E71T-1C/1M , same thing? It's the letters "M", and "C". I do get the E71T-1 part.

                    Quoted AWS Volume 2, Welding Hand Book 8th edition.

                    "Electrodes of the T-1 group are designated for CO2 shielding gas by this specification and are used with DCEP. However gas mixture of Argon and CO2 are used to improve usability, especially for out-of-position applications. Decreasing amounts of CO2 in the Argon CO2 mixture will increase manganese and silicon in the deposit and may improve impact properties. These electrodes are designed for single- or multiple pass welding. The T-1 electrodes are characterized by a spray transfer, low splatter loss, flat to slightly convex bead configuration , and a moderate volume of slag which completely covers the weld bead."

                    Same book.

                    " The appearance, soundness, and properties of welds made with the flux cored electrodes can be effected by the arc voltage. To high an arc voltage (too long and arc) can result in excessive splatter and wide, irregularly shaped weld beads. With self shielded electrodes, too high an arc voltage will result in excessive nitrogen pickup."


                    Comment

                    • OscarJr
                      Senior Member
                      • Jun 2014
                      • 753

                      #40
                      E71TM is just "their name" for E71T-1C/1M. Just have to Google it, is all.
                      HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
                      HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
                      HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
                      HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
                      HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
                      HTP Microcut 875SC

                      Comment

                      • Noel
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2017
                        • 1029

                        #41
                        Click image for larger version

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                        This explains some of it anyways... to those that were wondering?
                        I was. Drawing blanks. Guess I didn't look hard enough to solve my own silly question?
                        It wasn't google it was a book. The AWS Welding Hand Book 9th edition. I'll let you know if I can figure out what the letter "C" is about. Composite maybe?

                        Comment

                        • OscarJr
                          Senior Member
                          • Jun 2014
                          • 753

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Noel View Post
                          [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","data-attachmentid":601506**[/ATTACH]
                          This explains some of it anyways... to those that were wondering?
                          I was. Drawing blanks. Guess I didn't look hard enough to solve my own silly question?
                          It wasn't google it was a book. The AWS Welding Hand Book 9th edition. I'll let you know if I can figure out what the letter "C" is about. Composite maybe?
                          1C = works with C100
                          1M= works with Ar/CO2, typically C25

                          1C/1M = works equally well with either C100 or C25
                          HTP Invertig221 D.V. Water-cooled
                          HTP Pro Pulse 300 MIG
                          HTP Pro Pulse 200 MIG x2
                          HTP Pro Pulse 220 MTS
                          HTP Inverarc 200 TLP water cooled
                          HTP Microcut 875SC

                          Comment

                          • Noel
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2017
                            • 1029

                            #43
                            I did find a reference in CWB W48-01. It says, if a "C" has replaced the "M", the electrode was tested for use with 100% CO2. "M", 75 Argon 25 CO2. As moot a point as it is, I wanted a source that offered the explanation to refer back to, works and tested mean the difference between a right and wrong answer on a test. Not that this was, but it was bugging me that I didn't remember.
                            I do appreciate your reply.

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