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millermatic 250x

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  • #16
    I’m so glad you test drove one Franz. Good for you. And as usual, Franz, nobody here knows what on God’s green earth you’re making references to most of the time. You dramatic crybaby jolly volly.

    Ignore his acientness, he knows a little bit about a lot of things and uses the google to fill the gaps. I am used to matching his insults with cuts of my own these days, but they make little effort in thwarting the beast. Read the history of my posts, I try to be honest and helpful, not condescending and cryptic. Plenty of other guys here have way more experience than I do, I just chose to be a little more active on the forum with my posts.

    Caleb, I have a MM250 and I’ve used the living day lights out of a MM250X. By no stretch are they the best machine Miller ever made. However, if you have the ability and experience to dial in a wire feed welding machine, you can do just fine with either of these contraptions. I’ve never used small wire in them, but as the reading tells us, the small wire is particularly bad to use in these machines. Not in your intended use specs. It’s a big machine with a lot of power to melt some serious metal in rapid succession. $700 for one is not a great deal in my opinion, but great deals are rare. I would think that’s the peak of the used market for one, but I’ve also not been shopping for one lately. There are tons of these machines working every day in shops building trailers and repairing dump trucks. The loudest complainers are those that have had a poor experience with them or don’t know what they’re talking about. I use mine all the time. I trust it. I’d like it more of it was a 250x because I think they are an improvement over the old mm250. If I was rich, I’d replace it with something else, but I’m a working man like most on here. I plan to run this machine until it melts or I can’t see good enough to weld. I anticipate the latter. I have never spent extra time reworking jobs due to the machine being junk as it has been inferred by a particular old, crabby guy on here. I have made mistakes that caused me to redo things. Certainly operator error, as I’m not as perfect as some portray themselves to be.

    If you were near me, I’d let you come give mine a test run. Maybe the seller will let you do the same. If you do get to make some test welds, I’ve found on the 250x I use, that near the bottom end of the range has worked well for me. For example, of your project requires 22-23 volts and 360-380 ipm, I’ve found that closer to 22 and 360 has worked well for me.

    This is just my opinion based on my experience using the same machine you’re looking at. I say that if you have the money, go buy a 350p. If that doesn’t make sense, then the next best used machine will serve you just as well.

    Hope that helps. It’s what I do anyways, help people. It’s my job.


    • #17
      Perhaps remedial English will help you to improve further Ryan, it's good to hear you're at least attempting.

      I'd suggest increasing your vocabulary of American Standard English would be beneficial. I'd continue, but instead I'll pursue the hope you can learn just one thing at a given sitting, and hope you retain a sufficiency of the week's work to pass the Saturday testing.


      • #18
        Originally posted by caleb90 View Post
        from what i can gather, the hobart ironman 230 is pretty much the miller 250 but with tapped settings. i was set on buying the hobart but i got to thinking how i would miss the infinet voltage control that im used to at work(xmt 450). was also looking at the lincoln mp 256, as i can pick it up through my local airgas for 1800 after the rebate they have going and the ironman 230 would be around 1400.
        That's an interesting statement. I've heard a lot of praise for the Ironman, and a lot of gripes about the MM250. I suspect the 250 was Miller's first try at pulse width modulation of SCRs to control the output as opposed to the taps on the MM200, the 250's predecessor. I always chocked the gripes up to Miller not yet having learned the secrets of controlling the gate pulses on the SCRs. That is fundamentally a current control method, great for TIG and stick but you need voltage control for MIG. I assume you have to have some secret sauce to use it effectively as a voltage control method. I had thought briefly that maybe the problem was the series inductor, but if the fix had been that easy, I would think Miller would have just replaced inductors instead of taking the huge financial and reputation hit from the 250. No SCR control in the Ironman. Or. maybe there was a fundamental design change needed in the transformer itself to adapt to that control method. I would love to understand from an engineering viewpoint what the 250's problem was--obviously Miller figured out how to solve it.

        However, it is interesting that the MM350 does not use SCR control--nor does the old or new version of the Millermatic 211 or the Multimatic 215. Almost like Miller decided that SCR control of a constant-voltage source was just not a good plan.


        • #19
          I don’t know what any of that stuff means, Wayne, but it sounds like Miller learned to make metal melt a different way than with whatever an SCR is. Sounds like a natural progression of technology I suppose.


          • #20
            Originally posted by ryanjones2150 View Post
            I don’t know what any of that stuff means, Wayne, but it sounds like Miller learned to make metal melt a different way than with whatever an SCR is. Sounds like a natural progression of technology I suppose.
            Yep--I agree. Just one of those nerd questions for which I'd like to know the answer.


            • #21
              Originally posted by Aeronca41 View Post

              Yep--I agree. Just one of those nerd questions for which I'd like to know the answer.
              Basically the SCR or Thyristor is a switch.
              The main difference is speed,a SCR can switch fast enough to control the power from a moving wave form.
              The other difference is that once an SCR starts flowing current it will keep flowing until the charge carriers are depleted,usually when the AC current changes polarity.
              The current that maintains the SCR conducting is called the holding current,once the current drops below the holding current the SCR will shut off..
              By switching quickly the SCR can turn on for a fraction of a waveform and allow a small amount of current to flow,if the SCR is switched on at the beginning of the waveform most of the power is allowed through.
              Bob Wright

              Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.


              • #22
                The above post is written like it was from Noel. I had it saved on my computer for whatever reason. I am just a ladder stander in the river...Bob
                Bob Wright

                Spool Gun conversion. How To Do It. Below.


                • #23
                  Yes- A Good description of an SCR, which as stated is a type of Thyristor. A “variable on time switch”. But to
                  my weak mind, much better at controlling current than voltage, although average voltage can certainly be reduced by them. The application of a Thyristor pulsed wire speed control circuit was one of the design upgrades of the MM200 over the 35-made wire speed control pretty much independent of varying line voltage.
                  Last edited by Aeronca41; 08-16-2019, 05:13 PM. Reason: Just noticed I left out the words wire speed when I originally posted this.


                  • #24
                    Dadgum ladder standers.....


                    • #25
                      As Mark Twain once said, " The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated".

                      For the record gentleman... I'm still breathing. The pain of over doing the heavy lifting of car doors in my old age slowly washed away with the help of big pharma's small pills and time passing.

                      I can't take credit for that Bob. That was way more educated then I could offer.

                      So, with out fan fair I'll tell you what I think. I think what was once a solid gate of metal has been made of a lighter material making it easier to open and close the gate. What once was a noticeable push against a tighter firmer spring had been replaced with a lessor push and softer return to avoid the clang of the gate.

                      Raw transformer power induced into a secondary has been reduced in manufacture to less transformer power induced now stored in capacitors building up to discharge the lessor quanities of the power opening a lighter gate and the blending of old and new technology began to appear.

                      I can't comment more on the specifics of those power sources one way or another. What I can do is suggest with my simple knowledge that things are what they are for a reason.

                      It would be interesting to gut one like a fish and see what's inside for electronics. The size of wires on the transformers, the amount of wraps, a soild explanation of the current path, comparsion of the gate values, and with interest, the mentioned wave and portion taken or used to induce open and closing of the gate.

                      So this electronic door and gate stuff, I know nothing past opening and closing. Letting past or shutting out. Simply re directing electron flow is it not?
                      I'm thinking out loud... if gate construction is given concideration, it does fill in a few blanks.
                      The blanks are at what point in "value" does the gate function or not function well and cause problems? The snap crackle pop of metal transfer. Must have some impact on that as well other things, comments seems to support that it does as well I'd thnk other out put characteristics?

                      I greased the door hinges on the old Buick. The drivers door was creaking in the worst way opening and closing and although the sound was quite disturbing, lubricating It was a job I had just failed to get done. Well I finally did. It open and closes with ease now. But at it's worst, it still opened and closed. I wish SCR and thyristors were as simple.

                      On a personal note, I had a moment of discussion the other day with my son. About cars.
                      He said something like, I still see him as a little kid who doesn't know jack about jack. Well...that's a bit true.
                      But even in agreement, I reminded him not to take it personally, knowledge is one thing, having done or doing something more then once is another.
                      Not right or wrong, just the way it is. Goes to the overlapping of life experiences and expected out comes. With it comes a greater perspective.

                      I'm not sure about the rest of you who read about a man walking on the moon, but I watched it on black and white TV. I think that kind of experience does count for something. That something is the miniscule something that powers the switch of a SCR. That's something.

                      And to quote Forest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that".


                      • #26
                        Strange coincidence happened to me this evening while grilling some hotdogs on the patio with my wife. One of our fire shop guys (he fixes our fleet of fire trucks) also moonlights at a trucking outfit at night. This company has a yard full of some of the nicest looking, all aluminum dump trucks I’ve ever seen. Big ones too. Bigger than the standard 11 yard box, each truck has at least one drop axle, if not two. Anyway, the guy calls me and asks if I’m free to come out there and help them with some aluminum welding, he says they have the machine, they can’t weld to save their lives and to just bring my hand tools....

                        So I get there, bet you guys will never guess what machine they’re running....drum roll please.....a MM250x with a 30a spool gun. So I got to work, having never run a spool gun off a 250x before, and she welded like a champ. In fact, I’d say probably the best spool gun experience I’ve ever had.

                        I believe I am going to look into getting the module and a 30a for my old mm250 now. It was just nice having the digital readout when I was setting the gun up. Took about three 2” test beads to have it where I wanted it and I was off and running. Settled on 23v, 450 ipm and and about 35 on the argon (which I ended up having to run home and get since they only had C25, might be why they couldn’t get it weld worth a flip).

                        The customer was pleased at how fast I got it done and how nice the welds looked so he offered me some more work. And with a fleet of aluminum dump boxes like he has, I do believe this will be a good customer to add to my base.

                        I am going to try and talk him into getting a big dynasty though. With that much aluminum, he needs one.

                        MM250X and a 30A spool gun....two thumbs up says this kid with no experience.


                        • #27
                          That is just a fantastic story. And with a number of very positive outcomes to boot!


                          • #28
                            Noel, glad to hear you're feeling better. Been down the bad back road, and it was NOT fun. Thought I was going to die that way, and just hoped it was really soon! Without a doubt the most miserable four months of my life.


                            • #29
                              drug my feet to long and i guess it sold.. so the search continues


                              • #30
                                After all that! Dadgumit.